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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - flyboy77 - 07-11-2021

(07-11-2021, 02:30 AM)PaulP link Wrote:This is a very poor line of argumentation. You know that covid can spread like wildfire, you know that it only takes a few selfish inconsiderate people to do great damage despite best practice policies from governments. You know that there are many players and stakeholders involved in successful management of something like this. There's no point in giving a blow by blow account of what went down. It's already been covered earlier in this thread.

Do we know that really?

Sure, that is what the media (and even LP) tell us, but what do the numbers tell us?

Yesterday in NSW, in  the midst of the 'hyper contagious' Delta strain, 82 out of 48,754 test came up positive (and I won't revisit the flaws in the PCR test again - https://swprs.org/the-trouble-with-pcr-tests/ - other than to say it appears all States have been running the test at Ct amplification rates far in excess of what is reasonable).

82 of 48,754 = 0.17%

1 old lady died (condolences), but on average 460 odd folk die each and every day in this country. Perspective!

The simple fact is that CV19 is remarkably (far more than flu) targeted to hammer the older age demographics - and no one else - under 50, it's neither here nor there - see chart.

There are presently 112 folk in hospital, 18 in ICU.

Yet in the last bad flu season, 2019, there were 250 odd folk in ICU.

Meanwhile, in the UK, one of the highest vaxx populations, globally, case numbers are exploding - over 30,000 now compared to 600 odd the same time a year ago.

Out of 257 people to die from the DELTA Variant, 92 were unvaxxed,  47 Single vaxxed and 118 Double vaxxed.

Hmmm. Draw your own conclusions.

Over in the US, VAERS reported vaccine related deaths tops 9,000.





Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - capcom - 07-11-2021

One thing I do know I'm heartily sick of are the cops and their meaningless threats.  Same old same old every single day.

Many people don't care anymore and won't listen to state governments like they once did.

Or the trumped up "health professionals"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-11-2021

The Sars-CoV-2 Delta strain no longer shows a preference for the elderly, with the 50/50 spilt between young and old cases shifted to about 50 years old. Previously it was up at about 65 years old so that is a 15 year shift in the pivot point.

I'm not sure what people think, but if they think people in the 35 to 50 year old bracket are oldies then we are in serious trouble!

Despite the cherry-picked figures reported by some websites, the official UK government figures will tell you death and infection rates for double vaccinated individuals is reduced to at least 1/3rd of single or non-vaccinated.

Using VAERS or the Yellow Card system for data is like asking the Hitler Neo Nazi youth for an unbiased opinion if Judaism, the VAERS and Yellow Card self-reporting systems are broken by self-reporting radicals making those voluntary reporting systems virtually worthless. The only true data is the data coming out of hospitals and ICUs.

There is irony in anti-vaxxers arguing against vaccination based on deaths of double vaccinated patients from the Delta variant, they seem to have arrived at the logic that the virus is so deadly vaccines won't save you, but the also argue against lockdowns, they can't have it both ways.

If vaccines can't help you lockdowns and restrictions will become the norm that is self-evident. If you want to avoid lockdowns get vaccinated, the rate of infection and death drops by 70% which seems somewhat worthwhile!

Delta variant is leaving young people with severe long COVID effects, death is one of those long term effects.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - flyboy77 - 07-11-2021

(07-11-2021, 03:40 AM)LP link Wrote:The Sars-CoV-2 Delta strain no longer shows a preference for the elderly, with the 50/50 spilt between young and old cases shifted to about 50 years old. Previously it was up at about 65 years old so that is a 15 year shift in the pivot point.

I'm not sure what people think, but if they think people in the 35 to 50 year old bracket are oldies then we are in serious trouble!

Despite the cherry-picked figures reported by some websites, the official UK government figures will tell you death and infection rates for double vaccinated individuals is reduced to at least 1/3rd of single or non-vaccinated.

Using VAERS or the Yellow Card system for data is like asking the Hitler Neo Nazi youth for an unbiased opinion if Judaism, the VAERS and Yellow Card self-reporting systems are broken by self-reporting radicals making those voluntary reporting systems virtually worthless. The only true data is the data coming out of hospitals and ICUs.

There is irony in anti-vaxxers arguing against vaccination based on deaths of double vaccinated patients from the Delta variant, they seem to have arrived at the logic that the virus is so deadly vaccines won't save you, but the also argue against lockdowns, they can't have it both ways.

If vaccines can't help you lockdowns and restrictions will become the norm that is self-evident. If you want to avoid lockdowns get vaccinated, the rate of infection and death drops by 70% which seems somewhat worthwhile!

Delta variant is leaving young people with severe long COVID effects, death is one of those long term effects.

You're conflating.

The reported death number (257) is a system number - nothing to do with VAERS or the like - but of course you know that. Cherry picked? Not at all.

Your Hitler Youth analogy is beyond silly (trying to be polite) and another facile straw man attempt.

As for VAERS, or the EMA or Yellow  Card numbers, of course far from perfect, but are they a legitimate signal?

Of course they are.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - flyboy77 - 07-11-2021

Some more cherry picking from the UK:



Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 07-11-2021

We had hundreds die in Victoria at the peak of the original CoVid19 outbreak and there are conflicting reports of the Delta being more or less deadly and I think its going to be important going forward to see if this version is indeed more deadly or the virus while spreading at a greater rate is killing as many people. Hopefully the mutations will make it weaker and we have less fatalities and learn a bit more, as for Gladys she has been caught on the fence playing popularity politics vs an extreme lockdown.....no real middle ground for her. We can really only judge her when this outbreak is controlled and the number of fatalities.
The difference between her and Dan to me is the lack of ownership from Dan with regard the quarantine debacle where he botched the security and then lied about who was responsible afterwards. But that is old news and I hope the people of NSW dont have the same numbers of fatalities we did, my wife has a lot of her family in NSW and I hope Gladys gets her act together and does a better job than Dan initially did and learns from where we went wrong in Victoria.
Its not a contest we just dont want to see NSW suffer like we did in Victoria and keep their fatalities to a minimum.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 07-11-2021

(07-11-2021, 05:11 AM)flyboy77 date Wrote:Some more cherry picking from the UK:
Didn't you tell us Delta variant isn't worth worrying about because it's less lethal?

Could it be your ignoring the increased virulence and choosing the bits and pieces of figures you want to support your argument.

Weren't you arguing the lower fatality of Delta variant meant we could open up, and now you're posting something that tells us it kills more even when they are vaccinated?

Or perhaps I should I just highlight the rather dogdy nature of the linked image as shown below;

- I didn't know report was spelt with double "P", as in Repport No.8, I'll correct that for the future.

- Report No.8 was published in Dec 2020, are they predicting the future and quoting figures for future document dates. This seems to be confirmed by the link at the bottom of the image, yet the 3rd line of the charts suggests otherwise, 09/07/2021, innocent mistake or something else?

Figures stripped from various different locations and misused to paint a picture for political purposes I suspect. Looks genuine at first, but is patently a fabrication with just the smallest amount of cross checking exposing the truth about it!

[Image: index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4922.0;a...1084;image]
The Brits always get their spelling wrong in official docs, and publish a link to current data with a date 8 months in the past. :Smile

We understand the pain people suffer, we get that the lockdowns are hurting and the concept of vaccination is scary, we feel sorry for people in this situation on all counts, but sources wilfully lying about or ignoring obvious errors doesn't make things right.

It's absurd to claim or assert the government officials and politicians will stand up in the media and report the exact opposite of what their official reports have published in hard copy. It's career ending behaviour, and It doesn't happen.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - PaulP - 07-11-2021

There aren't any significant policy or leadership differences between NSW and Victoria. They both used hotels for quarantine, they both used private security firms to monitor those hotels. It could have gone t1ts up just as easily in NSW. Most of the Victorian deaths are still aged care related. Dan at the very least tried to be proactive, and get on the front foot to tackle it head on, rather than the wait-and-see approach in NSW.

At any rate, covid is far from over, and in the final analysis it could look very different to what it does now.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - capcom - 07-11-2021

And outright LIED about the offer of the ADF.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 07-11-2021

(07-11-2021, 01:54 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Unfortunately you'll need hundreds of people to die to win this argument, hope that doesn't happen and I hope you don't either. We know Mav is barracking hard.
Said like someone who believes in magical thinking. Unfortunately, magical thinking counts for diddly-squat. Covid will do whatever it does. If it kills people, it won’t have anything to do with me. And Gladys’ magical thinking won’t protect us any more than Trump’s confident assertions that cases would go down to nothing and Covid would just disappear one day.