(07-08-2021, 12:17 AM)LP link Wrote:The real risk is exposed in those countries without a valid response, India, Malaysia, Indonesia, they show the fundamentals.

Here the apparent reduced risk a result of the lockdowns and other measures to restrict the R[sub]0[/sub], you can't remove those controls and expect the numbers to remain low, the suggestion the response can be scaled back and it'll still be OK is the exact opposite of what the rest of the globe is experiencing.

A massive tell is how quiet some wealthy influential regions have become, in particular some that were initially loudly sceptical and propagated herd immunity as the only solution have almost disappeared from the debate, that is in part because they are now falling like dominoes into the line with the reality of the pandemic situation.

(07-08-2021, 12:21 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:There is no mandatory testing occurring of staff in Health Care.  None that has been discussed, or that I know of, and I would be one that would be in the gun, because I have travelled frequently from site to site, and between sites during this entire pandemic.

(07-08-2021, 12:38 AM)LP link Wrote:Are you asserting you worked in a COVID Ward, or have been exposed to COVID cases, and not been tested?

Isn't one of the fundamental problems with COVID over-running a hospital that fact that staff are forced to isolate compounding the problem of patient ratio even further?

(07-08-2021, 12:38 AM)LP link Wrote:My GP works as an emergency medicine doctor in local hospitals, and also volunteers in COVID wards, when he comes off a rotation he has to isolate and wait for a negative result before he can return to his general practice, it's limited how many regular patients he can see. I presume he isn't being treated differently from the majority.

(07-07-2021, 02:47 PM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Just read that half the recent deaths in England of Covid19 were people who had been vaccinated. Its confusing with conflicting data/opinions to make informed decisions...

Quote:Of the 92,000 Delta cases, 1320 people were admitted to hospital. Only 190 had been double vaccinated.

Sadly 117 people died – more than half of whom were partially or fully vaccinated. This sounds worrying but here again another complex story sits behind the headline number.

David Spiegelhalter, the chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication at Cambridge, and Anthony Masters, a statistical ambassador for the Royal Statistical Society, have a simple explanation for why so many fully vaccinated people died: the vaccines are not perfect and older people will always be at most risk.

“The risk of dying from COVID-19 is extraordinarily dependent on age: it halves for each six to seven year age gap,” they wrote in The Guardian. “This means that someone aged 80 who is fully vaccinated essentially takes on the risk of an unvaccinated person of around 50 – much lower, but still [it’s] not nothing, and so we can expect some deaths.”

Quote:And nobody in England aged under 50 and double jabbed has died from the Delta variant this year.

(07-07-2021, 11:08 AM)flyboy77 link Wrote:ps I'll apologise, I do get rather emotional when unequivocal data is put up and the likes of LP have nothing to counter it with but do so anyway. Believe me, I do understand passion and very strong emotions, but being too invested in wanting others to accept our viewpoint is a recipe for overwhelming frustration and dis-ease... as the stoics understands, you cannot control what others do and think. You can put your best foot forward with information, and that's it, it helps our sanity to understand that.

I run three businesses - 1.5 of them have been destroyed by these entirely (aside maybe the first few weeks at the start of this thing last year) pointless, useless, idiotic lockdowns. I really empathize with this. And I sincerely feel for you. Losing livelihood/income and watching some dreams vanish is simply awful and creates terrible distress and even loss of hope and is a recipe for mental health issues. Been there, know the sense of loss and how much it hurts. Most of us do need to 'vent' and as part of that we often search for blame.

I'm ok but I worry for the future of my kids and indeed, this once great State - laid bare by a charlatan. I also feel enormous concern for young folks. Imagine being a 3 year old today having to accept that big humans wear masks and then one day they won't... what effect will this have on their emotional development? You've mentioned previously your concern for the the effects of lockdowns on the mental health of many folks (especially businesses). Well, at the risk of sounding tedious, as someone with anxiety and depressive issues, I go through hell at the mention of lockdowns. The feeling of being 'trapped' triggers the PTSD big time, this time last year I sailed very close to my final breath. I get it. And that's where we bump into the mental health stigma big time and the poor understanding, handling and chronic under funding assigned to such a complex but huge reality. Stigma? So many of us, mostly males, deny it until we're finally hit by the severity of a mental health issues and face two choices - admit problem and get help, or escape the pain, permanently. Then, even if many of us admit needing help there are inadequate resources because of national denial, politically, culturally and individually.

This nation and all states are still great. We're still living in one of the best few lands on this ball in the sky. Most of our pollies are doing the best they can with what they know, but their ridiculous ideologies have provided appalling stumbling blocks from which we will learn - hopefully (not holding my breath). All state pollies have done much better than the Federal pollies. Many lessons learned, and it often takes a disaster for we humans to learn/wake up. Those of vision are often ignored until such times... and those of vision you'll find in business, health care and science - not politics.

When the likes of Mav put up stuff suggesting lockdowns are just A ok, i blow smoke. Again, please try not become so invested FB. I saw nothing in anything of any of Wingman Mav's posts to suggest a blaise disregard for those who suffer during a lockdown. He was simply expressing a view regarding the benefits he sees/saw in lockdowns. Many share this view but it does not suggest by implication heartlessness toward those who hurt during lockdowns... to repeat myself.

Never in the history of pandemics have lockdowns been advocated by any public health authority prior to the start of 2020. Perhaps in time we'll learn enough from this pandemic to put strategies in place to prevent such extremes.

For the very reason that the net damage to society and the economy is simply too great. And this was always very well understood and accepted. I reckon many authorities found themselves in a rock/hard place predicament... damned if you do, damned if you don't. But it seems those in charge put human life, death/illness by pandemic, as their number one priority in terms of strategy and action. Hard to argue with the intent.

And the data clearly shows the flu is a bigger killer than this virus in all the younger age demographics (maybe up to 40 or 45, i can't be bothered digging out the data now). If you don't want to believe that, sobeit. But you're wrong. What worries me about this view is are you suggesting to allow C19 to run through the community, unchecked, and to tolerate the deaths, long term illnesses, especially among our aged, infirmed and otherwise immune compromised folks? if so, that would insinuate a survival of the fittest kind of thing? I hope you're not suggesting that would be okay. This new strain, Delta, is apparently harming young folks as well and it would seem lockdowns, for now, are helpful in protecting young and old alike.

After reading this post from you yesterday, I actually felt deeply concerned re the distress your were obviously experiencing and thought long and hard last night and earlier today about how I could possibly offer, anything, to communicate an understanding of your view and worries for your businesses, family and state and perhaps some humble attitudes/ideas on how to deal with them in difficult times. Believe me, I know what it's like. Last year's lockdown had me looking right in the face of total black, a place where there was no tomorrow, where time didn't exist - a place devoid of all hope. I reached out for help, insisted on help, and got it (sorry for the repetition).

Hopefully out of all this we learn not only about pandemics, but also about how significant education re human mental health must be an on-going priority, along with a dramatic increase in resources for this area.

For that I'm sorry.

(07-08-2021, 12:21 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:That depends on what you want your data to show based on outcomes and then you see a regularly tested rugby players contract torn up for hosting a party at home with a bunch of others that are similarly tested more regularly than the average health care worker.

There is no mandatory testing occurring of staff in Health Care.  None that has been discussed, or that I know of, and I would be one that would be in the gun, because I have travelled frequently from site to site, and between sites during this entire pandemic.

Its a massive tell, that they make up the rules as they go.