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+--- Thread: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (/thread-2312.html)
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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Lods - 07-15-2024
(07-15-2024, 03:12 AM)LP link Wrote:[member=906]Lods[/member] is correct, it's not exclusive it does come from both sides, but the sheer volume of vitriol from one side of the debate is so extreme it seems like it is exclusive.
It probably does, but is that a view we form because of where we source our news?
I made a joke about watching Fox, CNN and MSNBC in equal measures the other day so that I could get a 'balanced view'.
It's actually true that I do switch around a bit of a morning and it's funny watching the same piece of news being treated totally differently by competing organisations.
I've seen may examples of over the top comments by Democrats that rival some of the things Trump says....and the strange thing is that's usually on the left leaning networks.
Folks who follow Trump arent just the rusted on MAGA folk as we saw last election when he got nearly half the vote.
Those people aren't all Right Wing Nut Jobs.
They are more likely, as we move to the centre of the spectrum, just middle of the road folk who slightly favour one side.
There's a great divide in that country.
Words matter and they trigger both left and right.
The further left and right the greater the trigger...and the greater the potential for extreme reactions.
The problem is that the genie is out of the bottle.
There may be a pause, but in a week or two normal hostilities will be renewed.
Already there is criticism of Biden's speech that was meant to smooth the waters this morning,
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Lods - 07-15-2024
(07-15-2024, 03:39 AM)PaulP link Wrote:You can google "History of Trump inciting violence", then do the same for Biden. Then take the individuals out of it and substitute "Democrats" and "Republicans". I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Whilst I understand what you're saying, it's not Democrat supporters who are tearing the joint down and calling for bloodshed. The data simply does not support the "two sides contribute" idea.
The problem is that "Google" is a tool for bias.
And it's dependent on how you 'word' your search.
You can find whatever you want to support a point of view.
Google "Trump is not my President 2016" and you'll find Democrats lining up to say there is no legitimacy to his initial Presidency.
Let me emphasise, I'm no fan of Donald Trump.
I see serious issues for not just America, but the World, especially Ukraine, if he is elected.
If I was a voter in America I'd be voting for the Democrat, even if it was Biden, who I have serious reservations regarding his deteriation issues.
But the causes of the divide in the USA is not just one sided.
We'll have to agree to disagree as to the balance.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 07-15-2024
(07-15-2024, 03:39 AM)PaulP date Wrote:The data simply does not support the "two sides contribute" idea.I don't think anyone has claimed the insults and accusations are the same or equivalent from both sides, but both sides do contribute in their own way quite differently. It's a more general commentary about the USA as a society.
I've mentioned before, across many facets they seem to accept the philosophy of redemption, and to be redeemed you must first lose your way. Both sides do not hesitate at throwing the first stone, it seems to be the USA's accept path to being saved, and it's not just a Christian phenomenon.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - PaulP - 07-15-2024
(07-15-2024, 04:03 AM)Lods link Wrote:The problem is that "Google" is a tool for bias.
And it's dependent on how you 'word' your search.
You can find whatever you want to support a point of view.
Google "Trump is not my President 2016" and you'll find Democrats lining up to say there is no legitimacy to his initial Presidency.
Let me emphasise, I'm no fan of Donald Trump.
I see serious issues for not just America, but the World, especially Ukraine, if he is elected.
If I was a voter in America I'd be voting for the Democrat, even if it was Biden, who I have serious reservations regarding his deteriation issues.
But the causes of the divide in the USA is not just one sided.
We'll have to agree to disagree as to the balance.
I'm not sure we're discussing the same thing. I was more about the words and rhetoric coming from Trump and other Republicans (too many to mention) designed to incite violence. The divisions, problems and disintegration in America, at least my mind, is a whole other topic.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Baggers - 07-15-2024
The Democrat/Republican thing in one respect is difficult for us in Oz to grasp. In the US, whether you're a Democrat or Republican is like what football team you barrack for. Bluntly, they're nuts for one or another for about 70 or 80% of the population.
In Oz if either of our major party leaders presented like Biden at the moment and/or Trump... they wouldn't last a week. Yes, our system affords us that luxury. Most Democrats and Republicans make all manner of way out excuses for their leader, even when they're clearly not fit to lead a penguin parade, such is their welded on barracking. So where do you go from there!!
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - ElwoodBlues1 - 07-15-2024
The shooter was a frail kid with glasses who was bullied at school and isolated. Worked in food prep at a nursing home and was rejected at the school rifle club for being a lousy shot.
Type of profile that seems to be prone to this type of action where they have nothing to live for and want to be acknowledged for something in life.
Schools and Governments need to do more to stem bullying and stamp it out and make sure these kids are identified and helped post school.
I'm not sure what his parents situation is or his home life but it happens too frequently where these gentle bullied kids
freak out with horrendous outcomes.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - madbluboy - 07-15-2024
Trump said he only turned his head at the moment to look at some screen with information on it which he rarely does.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - kruddler - 07-15-2024
(07-15-2024, 09:57 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:The shooter.... was rejected at the school rifle club for being a lousy shot.
Seems they were right.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - DJC - 07-15-2024
It seems that, when the first shot was fired, the secret service agents shouted, “Donald Duck!”
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Lods - 07-15-2024
Something about the whole incident seems just a bit off.
We know the meticulous planning that goes around the protection of Presidents and ex-Presidents of the USA. Real life is probably more intense than how it’s depicted in Hollywood
The folks in charge of securing this event were no Denzel Washington or Clint Eastwood.
There are a number of questions, some have been asked, some may already have been answered.
Most of these are questions of incompetence.
The young fellow who did the shooting was no trained assassin. How the Fck did he get on an open roof with a rifle 100m from the ex-President?
Why wasn’t that roof posted?
Why weren’t all the roofs within a couple of hundred metres posted because that would have given line of sight to many other points of the area? There was certainly no shortage of police and security personnel.
Many of the crowd have said they saw the gunmen and tried to alert authorities, they said some of those seemed to have little interest in following that up…but we don’t know?
Was the deputy who confronted the gunman on the roof and then backed off, sent up there as a response to those concerns from the crowd?
How long from that confrontation until the first shots were fired. You would think that the gunman, having been discovered would have started shooting straight away. The deputy on the roof would have dropped back to the ground and radioed to a’ central command’ that there was a “gunman on the roof, shut it down.”
Was there a central command?
All of these questions will no doubt form the basis of an assessment and there is probably a failure at several points.
There’s one question I find rather hard to explain and it may just be a matter of timing.
The sniper group on the roof seemed to be looking directly in the direction of the gunmen. How long was that group in place before the shooting and why that direction? What were they watching, the birds? Could they not see him. A gunman with a rifle!... Or were they also sent up in response to the crowd concerns? They must have set up quickly if that’s the case. There was very little time before the gunman started shooting and him being, in turn, shot.
No doubt all these will be answered in a follow-up assessment. There is no shortage of evidence. Most of the crowd were probably making a record of the day on their phones. If mobile phones had been around in the Kennedy days, they might have got some interesting shots.