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Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-17-2016
(06-17-2016, 11:12 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Basically if you call the Orlando shooter a terrorist you're doing so only because he's middle eastern and it would have nothing to do with the fact he shot 100 people.
I reckon if you pledge your allegiance to the leader of ISIS you qualify as a terrorist...
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - DJC - 06-17-2016
(06-17-2016, 12:01 PM)cookie2 link Wrote:In other words you are surmising and speculating?
Perhaps, but no more or less than folk have about the Orlando massacre or the Lindt Cafe siege. It's certainly not a conspiracy theory but a reasonable deduction from the available facts.
Those facts seem to be mounting up; Thomas Mair did have mental health issues but apparently purchased books and subscriptions from an American-based Neo-Nazi group in the late 1990s and early 2000s. One purchase was a handbook with instructions for building a homemade firearm. Mair used "an antique or home-made gun" to shoot Mrs Cox. He also subscribed to and corresponded with a pro-apartheid South African magazine in the 2000s.
Anyway, I'll leave the last words to Brendan Cox:
Quote:“Jo believed in a better world and she fought for it every day of her life with an energy, and a zest for life that would exhaust most people. She would have wanted two things above all else to happen now, one that our precious children are bathed in love and two, that we all unite to fight against the hatred that killed her.
"Hate doesn’t have a creed, race or religion, it is poisonous.”
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - cookie2 - 06-17-2016
we all unite to fight against the hatred that killed her.
"Hate doesn’t have a creed, race or religion, it is poisonous.”
Laudable words and fine sentiments for sure and the loss of this dedicated woman is indeed a tragedy. Isn't it a pity though that everyone doesn't live by them and refrains from blanket condemnations of others before they know all the facts.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - LanceRomance - 06-17-2016
(06-17-2016, 12:20 PM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:I reckon if you pledge your allegiance to the leader of ISIS you qualify as a terrorist...
Bang on.
He also scoped out other places to attack but settled on that one.
Plus what he did is in line with extremist preaching.
What it has also done is show up homophobia from other groups, The difference being is that they are less likely to go and kill a whole bunch of people.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - LanceRomance - 06-17-2016
(06-17-2016, 07:18 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:A similar situation has emerged in Britain today with the murder of an MP by a mentally ill man. The conspiracy theorists are in full flight linking it to Brexiteers and anti immigration groups.
Not enough has come out about the English thing to classify it as a terrorist act.
Seems at this stage it was a disenfranchised loose cannon who had access to a gun.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - DJC - 06-18-2016
(06-17-2016, 11:19 PM)LanceRomance link Wrote:Not enough has come out about the English thing to classify it as a terrorist act.
Seems at this stage it was a disenfranchised loose cannon who had access to a gun.
As were McVeigh and Monis who are, quite rightly in my opinion, considered to be terrorists. Of course, McVeigh had access to a bomb as well as guns (access to a gun is a given)
What if Mair had shouted "Allahu Akbar" instead of "Britain first"?
West Yorkshire Police have confirmed that they are investigating the killer's links to extreme right-wing groups. Not that any such links will determine whether Mair is a terrorist; that's down to his motives.
Mair has been charged with murder but not terrorism at this stage.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - LanceRomance - 06-18-2016
Monis had been on the radar for his beliefs for a long time.
He was an islamist.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - cookie2 - 06-18-2016
(06-18-2016, 12:17 AM)DJC link Wrote:As were McVeigh and Monis who are, quite rightly in my opinion, considered to be terrorists. Of course, McVeigh had access to a bomb as well as guns (access to a gun is a given)
What if Mair had shouted "Allahu Akbar" instead of "Britain first"?
West Yorkshire Police have confirmed that they are investigating the killer's links to extreme right-wing groups. Not that any such links will determine whether Mair is a terrorist; that's down to his motives.
Mair has been charged with murder but not terrorism at this stage.
So far his only "link" to right wing groups is possession of literature - not membership of any particular organisations, and several including Britain First have stated they have never heard of him. He certainly could be called a murderer from what is known so far but the case continues.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - DJC - 06-18-2016
(06-18-2016, 12:48 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:So far his only "link" to right wing groups is possession of literature - not membership of any particular organisations, and several including Britain First have stated they have never heard of him. He certainly could be called a murderer from what is known so far but the case continues.
That's not quite right Cookie. A White Rhino Club blog post from Jan 2006 described Mair as "one of the earliest subscribers and supporters of S. A. Patriot". Mair was also linked to the National Alliance (It seems that McVeigh was influenced by National Alliance literature).
Links to right wing, left wing, anarchist, religious, pseudo-religious, environmental or other groups is not a pre-requisite for terrorism. While there isn't a universally recognised definition of terrorism, the use of violence or terror for political purposes is a common factor. I have previously mentioned Monis and McVeigh and the Unabomber Kaczynski is another terrorist without links to any group or organisation who used violence and terror to pursue a political agenda.
Whether or not Mair is a terrorist should be determined by his motives. The fact that he shouted a political slogan while murdering an MP suggests a particular motive but we won't know for sure until the legal process runs its course.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - cookie2 - 06-18-2016
@ DJC
One of the British Anti-terrorist squads are reported to be now working with the WY Police on this case. It will be very interesting to see if the killer was working alone or was part of a larger plot/conspiracy. His actual motive is not yet clear but from my readings elsewhere the backdrop appears to be a high level of social deprivation in parts of the north of England and an antipathy to the EU, which the recent campaigning for the referendum may have inflamed - which is in turn a big worry in itself. Jo Cox was apparently a very active campaigner for the Remain group.