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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - cookie2 - 06-11-2021

(06-11-2021, 12:34 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:We aren't beating covid.  Its going to dissappear into nothing as the next version of a flu.

It will leave a massive legacy in many ways though in its impact on society, whether intended or not.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-11-2021

(06-11-2021, 02:53 PM)LP link Wrote:Can you point me to the source for this?

I just listened to some official who claimed this stuff and general crime was down 35%, based on reports from emergency services. Apparently there has just been a big national study completed as part of a global study.
Two Ambulance Officers who work at Frankton and Dandenong and an ER nurse who works in the Eastern suburbs at a Public Hospital and another who works at an inner Melbourne hospital. You want the real facts about all the cock ups then you go to the people on the frontline not the massaged stats you read on govt websites etc..

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 06-12-2021

[member=105]Thryleon[/member], I imagine if the boy cried wolf early on and 800 of the town’s flock had been slaughtered by the wolf, the townsfolk would have been a little more willing to heed his calls later on.

Unfortunately, human nature suggests otherwise. Case in point: hurricanes in the US. The hurricane warning system is pretty accurate. But of course hurricanes don’t follow a rigid path. They can and do change direction and lose strength. Many towns have dodged a bullet when this happens and the locals are cynical the next time a warning is issued. And then disaster strikes. The same could be said here about bushfire warnings.

As with hurricane warnings, epidemiologists can only call them as they see them and if we’re lucky and those predictions don’t pan out this time, we should just count our lucky stars.

If we want to draw a better analogy from the literary world, maybe epidemiologists are like Cassandra in Greek mythology. She was blessed by the Gods with the ability to foresee coming disasters but cursed by ensuring her warnings fell on deaf ears.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 06-12-2021

(06-11-2021, 11:16 PM)ElwoodBlues1 date Wrote:Two Ambulance Officers who work at Frankton and Dandenong and an ER nurse who works in the Eastern suburbs at a Public Hospital and another who works at an inner Melbourne hospital. You want the real facts about all the cock ups then you go to the people on the frontline not the massaged stats you read on govt websites etc..
So that is no hard data, just a couple of opinions.

The 'official' I listened to was an academic summarising an independent international study that UNSW was participating in, not sure they have any reason to colour the results in the favour of Vic Health or Vic Pol, and the academics are probably socialist anyway! Are you asserting Scotty from Marketing is bending the arm of UNSW academics to bodgey up the records to make Dan Andrews look nice? :o

To me it sounded like the anonymised data came mostly from official unified Federal records. The study has not been released yet, it must still be in peer review, hopefully it appears on somewhere like The Conversation soon.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - madbluboy - 06-12-2021

LP you keep asking for data but if anyone puts up data that doesn't support your opinion you dismiss it. You do this with any topic on this forum.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 06-12-2021

(06-12-2021, 04:46 AM)madbluboy date Wrote:LP you keep asking for data but if anyone puts up data that doesn't support your opinion you dismiss it. You do this with any topic on this forum.
[member=26]madbluboy[/member]‍
Elwood made an assertion deaths from suicide and other hospitalisations like drug overdose were up, it's far to ask for the source, I was hoping he'd provide it because I'd just been listening to a preliminary report that suggested the very opposite. But he didn't provide numbers just relayed opinions so I never got to dismiss any data he provided, because there wasn't any!

Opinions are not data, opinions are next to worthless because they are coloured by human experience and perceptions.

When that report gets formally published I'll link it here somewhere, it'll contain numbers on cases, admissions, arrests, etc., etc., that is data not someone's opinion!

I'm not dismissing the experience of people either, it's just that what happens in a location or on a specific shift might not be representative of the general trend, someone's experience can be generally unreliable to the global trends even if their observations are correct.

fwiw, I was hoping Elwood would publish or link something with hard numbers that contradicts what I'd heard, because I suspect such reports could well be political as he suggests. But to refute it you need hard data, not opinions.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-12-2021

Only those with serious physical or mental health issues admitted for further treatment are included in any Govt data. In addition, clinical data from emergency departments (EDs) or primary health care services doesnt currently capture those presenting with intentional self-harm conditions. In cases of fatal drug overdose etc it will have respiratory failure as cause of death, unless its a crime or undetermined cause. A patient who is revived at the scene of an ambulance callout will not be admitted if they are considered to have recovered. They would have to admit themselves voluntarily.....so CoVid doesnt really have a heading when it comes to accurate stats.
Do you honestly think the Government would want data released that pointed to a massive increase in attempted suicides, drug overdoses etc under their lockdown conditions?
I'm just telling you what the people at the front line are dealing with and its not masses of Covid cases like in India etc, Covid wards in Victoria are empty but mental health issues are up.....and they dont all make the stat sheet.
You are entitled to believe the Government data but I'll go with the people at the coalface who I can trust...if the official you listened to is suggesting CoVid has reduced mental health stats and crime like you suggested I find that laughable....




Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - PaulP - 06-12-2021

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/face-masks-should-continue-forever-says-british-scientist-20210611-p5807s.html

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - capcom - 06-12-2021

(06-12-2021, 09:23 AM)PaulP link Wrote:https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/face-masks-should-continue-forever-says-british-scientist-20210611-p5807s.html

Like that'll last ... typical idiot

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 06-12-2021

(06-12-2021, 07:39 AM)ElwoodBlues1 date Wrote:Only those with serious physical or mental health issues admitted for further treatment are included in any Govt data. In addition, clinical data from emergency departments (EDs) or primary health care services doesnt currently capture those presenting with intentional self-harm conditions. In cases of fatal drug overdose etc it will have respiratory failure as cause of death, unless its a crime or undetermined cause. A patient who is revived at the scene of an ambulance callout will not be admitted if they are considered to have recovered. They would have to admit themselves voluntarily.....so CoVid doesnt really have a heading when it comes to accurate stats.
Do you honestly think the Government would want data released that pointed to a massive increase in attempted suicides, drug overdoses etc under their lockdown conditions?
I'm just telling you what the people at the front line are dealing with and its not masses of Covid cases like in India etc, Covid wards in Victoria are empty but mental health issues are up.....and they dont all make the stat sheet.
You are entitled to believe the Government data but I'll go with the people at the coalface who I can trust...if the official you listened to is suggesting CoVid has reduced mental health stats and crime like you suggested I find that laughable....
Ignoring what is reported about the how and why, if there are more deaths it shows in the totals, you don't need any other piece of data except the count relative to the monthly historical averages!

Critics can't assert there are more ODs, suicide attempts and mental health issues while at the same time complain that the system is broken with slower response and longer wait time due to COVID, yet get a better outcome! That is the absurdity of what is being asserted, there is more of everything bad, but a better outcome because the number of deaths hasn't increased or has even dropped despite all these increased attempts and ODs!

Lots of people have made this assertion of increased deaths by suicide and ODs every lockdown, many on social media, many in traditional media, it has become part of the anti-lockdown mantra, but not one has shown that the numbers actually increase. If I recall correctly in the 2nd lockdown when these accusations were made the Bureau of Statistics reported we actually had less deaths versus typical historical averages, as well as lower crime stats and lower pollution levels.

I'm, pretty confident the total official death count is accurate, so where to............................?