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+--- Thread: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide (/thread-5167.html)
Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - Lods - 04-21-2021
(04-21-2021, 11:35 AM)capcom link Wrote:Getting a bit too willing in here for my liking.
Don't get too concerned.
It's actually not as bad as it seems
I have a great deal of time for Kruddler, his participation and contribution to the site.
We tend to agree a fair bit of the time.
We also have a few disagreements.
We just have a difference of opinion at the moment over supporter influence.
I suspect that may have a bit to do with a generational view of the club.
I'm stuck in 1970
Kruddler's in 2070
) Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - Macca37 - 04-21-2021
(04-21-2021, 11:33 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I am not trying to suggest we are a premiership contender.
However, i am suggesting that we do not need to sack the coach, the board and go through an entire rebuild again either.
The last time Charlie played a full game, he kicked 7 goals. He got injured the next week and injured again in a comeback game.
Imagine what having a fit Charlie can do for this team. He is but 1 player, but his inclusion would live morale, thus effort, and overall talent level, potentially to the point where we have a win or 2 more so far. That means less pressure on everyone. However, through no fault of our own really, he is unavailable....and we are under the thumb as a result.
There are others on our list that would have a similar effect, albeit less obvious one. Marchbank, Newman....
The follow on from their longterm unavailability means that obviously we have a less talented team to choose from. But perhaps more importantly it means we have less options to bring in when things are not going well. So we can't afford to drop poor performing players, because the players coming in are not up to AFL standard....or have failed previously to this point. Pressure increases.
I think it was Kane Cornes that was saying we as a club have failed by not playing the kids. He showed a graphic with kids and games played. He used Kemp with 0 games as justification of this point. Of course, ask a Carlton supporter why Kemp has played 0 games and you'll find out that is because he has been injured basically his entire time on the list. But the media run with it and pressure increases.
Why did Bolton get sacked? He played too many kids. But now, we don't play enough kids.
Less learned and less informed Carlton supporters and AFL supporters in general do not deep dive into these comments, but repeat them as justification for getting angry at the club etc. Pressure increases.
So what happens? Pressure increases.....mostly unjustifiably.
End result, supporters get their way without really knowing why.
Cycle repeats.
I am not suggesting that we sack the coach, the board or go through an entire rebuild, and I'm not sure anyone else is either.
I am very happy that the club has its finances in order.
However, our appalling record at the draft has left us in the position we are in now. It seems at the drafts our selection committee has been fixated on picks in the first 20 to 25 and paid little attention to later draft picks - on reflection some seem like an afterthought - leaving us now having to pay big money for the likes of players such as McGovern.
Instead of having a number of reliable foot soldiers to cover inevitable injuries, the cupboard is almost bare. That lack of foresight is holding us back now and for the near future.
This current situation was entirely predictable and it is what upsets supporters.
Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - kruddler - 04-21-2021
(04-21-2021, 12:09 PM)Lods link Wrote:I have a great deal of time for Kruddler....
Kruddler's in 2070
That is indeed a lot of time. ;D
Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - kruddler - 04-21-2021
(04-21-2021, 12:11 PM)Macca37 link Wrote:I am not suggesting that we sack the coach, the board or go through an entire rebuild, and I'm not sure anyone else is either.You are not....others however....
(04-21-2021, 12:11 PM)Macca37 link Wrote:However, our appalling record at the draft has left us in the position we are in now. It seems at the drafts our selection committee has been fixated on picks in the first 20 to 25 and paid little attention to later draft picks - on reflection some seem like an afterthought - leaving us now having to pay big money for the likes of players such as McGovern.re foot soldiers...
Instead of having a number of reliable foot soldiers to cover inevitable injuries, the cupboard is almost bare. That lack of foresight is holding us back now and for the near future.
This current situation was entirely predictable and it is what upsets supporters.
Thats why i wanted Newnes.
Thats why i wanted McDonald.....who knew he'd get injured for 2 months.
I'm not suggesting we haven't made mistakes, or have some things to learn. Just that its not as bad as it appears......to some.
Example, you just cite draft picks and poor selections.
Mav just provided an alternative view from those who'd know.....that is we have failed in development.
Development has been one of my biggest bug bears with this club. We get players in, they never seem to hit the elite mark like they do elsewhere.
We let players go who are underperforming, then they go to another level at another club.
Its not the players, its the development.
People say we never should've let JK go for Judd.
I say JK never would've been the same player had he stayed with us.
Everyone has their theories as to why we are no good.
Reality would suggest its a little bit of everything, rather than simply 1 thing.
My take, besides poor development, is that their is too much outside influence from 'supporters' (read Pratts and Mathiesons) who are trigger happy and never let our plans play out we'd like and get cold feet, and demand change too soon.
Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - Macca37 - 04-21-2021
Point taken Kruddler.
Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - Macca37 - 04-21-2021
I must admit I was blindsided by the details from the Matt Rendell interview. I have given little attention to development in the past as I assumed ( I know, a dangerous thing to do) that Carlton as a successful club would automatically use best practices in the development of its players.
Now that it has been called into question, I would appreciate any information on development, or lack of, as it relates to our club.
Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - Professer E - 04-21-2021
The fact that our next gen/academy set up is a joke and I think we are the only club not to have listed a player developed from that source. Is a disgrace and missed opportunity IMO.
Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - Lods - 04-21-2021
@ Kruddler
I understand the point you're making regarding "Supporter v supporter"
I think we all appreciate that powerful 'Supporters" outside the club have influenced the running of the club...that extends even beyond the 20 year 'dark ages'.
It raises a couple of points and questions.
Firstly I have no doubt that these folks (Pratts, Mathieson,...Elliotts in the past) are all solid Carlton people.
They all want success for the club.
In that respect they're pretty much the same as us.
They differ from the average supporter in that they have significant financial and political (at a club level) influence.
The question is how much they enjoy that power and control and the positive and negative benefits of its influence.
Given that they're supporters much like us.....do they react and move on the basis of what they perceive as a general feeling for change amongst the general Carlton population or do they move when they want to.
In other words... are they the cart or the horse?
So we understand that these people have had a significant impact on club politics.
If this is at the heart of our problems how is it resolved?
I'm not sure it's possible.
A first step would be a total board change.
A new independent group...but how independent would any group be?
How do you stop the wealthy from involving themselves.
The likely result would just be a switch to another faction.
Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - Professer E - 04-21-2021
With the nominations committee were stuck with these factions forever. "revolution" isn't possible.
Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 5: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - PaulP - 04-21-2021
(04-21-2021, 01:09 PM)Macca37 link Wrote:I must admit I was blindsided by the details from the Matt Rendell interview. I have given little attention to development in the past as I assumed ( I know, a dangerous thing to do) that Carlton as a successful club would automatically use best practices in the development of its players.
Now that it has been called into question, I would appreciate any information on development, or lack of, as it relates to our club.
It's a long story, full of opinions and theories. Back in the day, Carlton didn't have to worry about development, because we simply bought the best available. It was a club everyone wanted to play for, and we could therefore discard all but the very best. This mentality continued through to John Elliott, with his famous quip in 1990 that "We don't rebuild at Carlton." I think we came very late to embracing the twin equalisation measures of the draft and salary cap, and for all I know they may have been embraced begrudgingly. I suspect it takes a long time to build good habits, and it takes a long time to build a successful development program. Clubs like Hawthorn have what is informally known as the Hawthorn apprenticeship, where the kids come in and play in the 2's for a season or two to learn the Hawks way. So far as I can tell, we have no such thing. It seems to me as though our kids come straight in and are expected to have an immediate impact. I think the massive rebuild started a few years back in a way forced the club to look at the development issue properly. I guess it's open to debate whether we were ready for it then, and whether we're ready for it now.