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Re: General Discussions - PaulP - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 05:18 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Spent a short time working in Russia and some of the breakaway states and a lot of the average folk from the likes of Belarus, Moldova, Estonia etc all wanted to be back in the Soviet Union. So called Freedom isnt much use when nothing works and you are starving, the replacement govts were/are more corrupt than the previous Soviet regimes.
Socialism does have its advantages depending where you are in the world.
If we humans don't address our fundamental capacity for evil and self interest, no system can be made to work. Capitalism is a mess at the moment, unless you're part of the lucky 1%.
Re: General Discussions - Baggers - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 05:24 AM)PaulP link Wrote:If we humans don't address our fundamental capacity for evil and self interest, no system can be made to work. Capitalism is a mess at the moment, unless you're part of the lucky 1%.
Yes, Pauly, we humans are indeed a most paradoxical critter. We are capable of amazing compassion and sacrifice for our fellows in times of trouble - we can band together and work together, tirelessly, for the greater good... but, sadly, it often takes a disaster or common enemy to unite us.
Equally, perhaps even moreso, we're also capable of breathtaking ignorance, narcissism and a most profound violence - to ourselves, others and our ball in the sky. I think it is the Navajo who, in their spirituality, believe that humans are born bad/evil and it is our task in life to find and adopt principles and values that unite for the common good.
If you study, as you and I have, the phenomena of the 'shadow' side of human nature -- introduced with clarity to psychology by Carl Jung -- you'd hardly be optimistic about our future. It takes an enormous amount of personal courage for any individual to so know themselves (Plato) as to understand their own shadow side. Sadly, fear abounds in our world... courage is in short supply.
Of all people, it was Ronald Reagan who once said that the only way humanity will unite is if invaded by aliens from another planet. Says a lot.
Re: General Discussions - ElwoodBlues1 - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 05:24 AM)PaulP link Wrote:If we humans don't address our fundamental capacity for evil and self interest, no system can be made to work. Capitalism is a mess at the moment, unless you're part of the lucky 1%.Thomas Hobbs a philosopher of sorts in 1651 wrote,humans are not hardwired to live together in large scale political societies. We’re not naturally political animals like bees or ants, who instinctively cooperate and work together for the common good. Instead, we’re naturally self-interested and look out for ourselves first and foremost. We care about our reputation, as well as our material wellbeing, and our desire for social standing drives us into conflict as much as competition over scarce resources.
Reckon he might be right , his solution was the following...If we want to live together peacefully, Hobbes argued, we must submit ourselves to an authoritative body with the power to enforce laws and resolve conflicts. Hobbes called this the ‘sovereign’. As long as the sovereign preserves peace then we shouldn’t question or challenge its legitimacy, for that way leads back to the state of nature, the worst possible place we could find ourselves.
Re: General Discussions - Thryleon - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 04:10 AM)DJC link Wrote:I believe Cambage has Nigerian heritage.
Indigenous identity generally requires one to meet three criteria; descent from an Indigenous person, identifying as an Indigenous person and recognition as a member by an Indigenous community. Skin colour isn't a factor and nor should it be when it's more or less a throw of the dice for folk of mixed genetic origin.
All of the above is way too deep and thoughtful and political for my liking.
I like simple. I dont see their background, creed, gender, colour or disability when I look at Olympians. I see a bunch of Aussies who have dedicated their lives to be the best athlete they can be.
A white can be a role model for black and vice versa and all that matters is how they conduct themselves on and off field when competing.
If we focussed more on that, and less on the rest of the crap we'd probably have happier people more often.
Re: General Discussions - DJC - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 01:00 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:All of the above is way too deep and thoughtful and political for my liking.
I like simple. I dont see their background, creed, gender, colour or disability when I look at Olympians. I see a bunch of Aussies who have dedicated their lives to be the best athlete they can be.
A white can be a role model for black and vice versa and all that matters is how they conduct themselves on and off field when competing.
If we focussed more on that, and less on the rest of the crap we'd probably have happier people more often.
No Thry, it's just how our First Nations people define themselves. We've taken everything else away from them so why not let them identify themselves as they choose.
Of course, I don't include Cambage's outburst in that, and her disrespect of Maurice Longbottom is appalling. Her ignorant comments play into the hands of racists like Andrew Blot who focus on skin colour and stereotypical behaviour rather than cultural mores.
Re: General Discussions - cookie2 - 05-07-2021
I believe that humans have the inbuilt need for a sense of identity even though we exhibit a strong degree of self interest. Basically we are tribal. Trying to manage large and diverse groupings so that everyone feels a sense of fairness and justice calls for us to abandon or change some of the hard wiring that has evolved within. Maybe we have made some progress in this but the challenge certainly remains for future generations, or maybe we’ll slide backwards as existing groupings get reinforced and new groupings emerge. I don’t have the expertise to answer that but I do get a sense that we are approaching a major ideological crossroads.
Re: General Discussions - Gointocarlton - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 03:17 AM)LP link Wrote:Liz Cambage is rallying against the White Wash of the Australian Olympic team promotions.Why do I read this stuff and think she is just a publicity and attention seeking tool? Either she is a complete flog or I am part of the racist white surpremacist regime/movement here in Australia. I know in my mind which one it is.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/basketball/cambage-threatens-tokyo-boycott-over-aoc-s-whitewashed-promo-shoots-20210507-p57prm.html
Firstly, some of the reports put this in an indigenous platform, is Cambage indigenous?
Secondly, given the photos have 7 and 10 athletes respectively, to keep things proportional we have to have 0.23% of an Indigenous person in the 7 athlete photo, and 0.33% of a Indigenous person in the 10 athlete photo. Or combined 0.56% of an Indigenous athlete across both photos.
The use of a whole disabled athlete in both is ridiculously over-representative.
Just a few weeks back I listened to a Indigenous activist from Vic Western District argue you are indigenous if we say your indigenous, and skin colour makes no difference. The debate is so full of hypocrisy I can't pretend to be interested anymore. The Cambage article asserts she tweeted that fake tan doesn't cut it, so true skin colour matters!
There is a lot of absurdity in this debate from all sides even my own! :o
Re: General Discussions - LP - 05-08-2021
(05-07-2021, 10:16 PM)Gointocarlton date Wrote:Why do I read this stuff and think she is just a publicity and attention seeking tool? Either she is a complete flog or I am part of the racist white surpremacist regime/movement here in Australia. I know in my mind which one it is.Yes, I admit I worry that another good cause is being corrupted by financial motives, claiming to be a victim or oppressed has become too profitable.
It's a bit ironic coming from Cambage, who grew up in one of Melbourne most elite and wealthy neighbourhoods, but I suggest that won't be mentioned voluntarily in the media and may even be denied or downplayed because it doesn't fi the narrative!
Re: General Discussions - Thryleon - 05-08-2021
(05-07-2021, 01:27 PM)DJC link Wrote:No Thry, it's just how our First Nations people define themselves. We've taken everything else away from them so why not let them identify themselves as they choose.
Of course, I don't include Cambage's outburst in that, and her disrespect of Maurice Longbottom is appalling. Her ignorant comments play into the hands of racists like Andrew Blot who focus on skin colour and stereotypical behaviour rather than cultural mores.
So our first nations people aren't Australian?
So much for inclusiveness.... they will not stop until we bow down to them then??
Re: General Discussions - DJC - 05-08-2021
(05-08-2021, 03:21 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:So our first nations people aren't Australian?
So much for inclusiveness.... they will not stop until we bow down to them then??
In fact Thry, they are more Australian than everyone else. The sooner we all recognise their unique place as the First Australians the sooner we can all move on together.
Meanwhile, Commonwealth Education Minister, Alan Tudge, is concerned that young Australians are learning too much about Indigenous Australians at school. What a crock of sh1t!