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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 06-05-2021

(06-05-2021, 01:03 AM)capcom date Wrote:Appears that the karma bus has pulled into Anthony Fauci's driveway.
It'll be hard to tell truth from political spin in the coming weeks, once they started discussing China there will be all sorts of rubbish, the Russians have nothing on the Chinese when it comes to blatantly interfering and pressuring people in a public debate.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 06-05-2021

What happened to fauci?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - cookie2 - 06-05-2021

(06-05-2021, 01:03 AM)capcom link Wrote:Appears that the karma bus has pulled into Anthony Fauci's driveway.

And he's about to be thrown under it, along with others.  A major pivot away from China in the offing? Could be interesting.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 06-07-2021

Can’t see how Fauci can be hung out to dry.

At the start of all this, Trump wanted to lavish praise on the Chinese as he was hoping for a big Trade deal that would secure his re-election. Anyone who thinks he would have behaved differently if only he’d been told x, y, & z just hadn’t bothered to check out his modus operandi in the preceding 3 years. At every turn, he has lavished praise on those who he thinks can be charmed into doing what he wants (e.g. Kim Jong Il) only to resort to vitriol when rebuffed (e.g. Pence).

Nothing was stopping Trump from responding to Covid. He admitted to Bob Woodward early on that Covid was a beast that was much worse than the flu but said he wanted to downplay it to avoid panic. You’d have to think that meant he didn’t want Wall Street to panic so he could boast about a buoyant Stockmarket and economy leading up to the election. He even went to the extent of framing masks as unpatriotic.

It was only when Covid was running rampant that he resorted to plan B: calling it the China virus and blaming China at every turn (while ignoring his own failure to protect his citizens from this attack).

I’m intrigued by what relevance the “origin story” has. Obviously, it would be desirable to get to the bottom of this as we’d then be able to minimise the risk of another pandemic and hone responses should one occur. But others want to sheet home blame and punish China. The difference is between holding a Truth & Reconciliation Commission (using the South African model) and Nuremberg Trials. The problem with the latter is that China is a superpower and won’t let that happen. And China’s imperative of refusing to be drawn into the blame game means it won’t participate in a scientific investigation.

Let’s assume it were possible to prove to everybody’s satisfaction that Covid escaped from the Wuhan Lab. Would that mean China would pay reparations? Not bloody likely. At best, there’d be global condemnation and that would destroy China’s reputation. Instead of being the hero to countries benefiting from Sinovac, it would receive a diplomatic black eye. That would be a great result IMO but that’s why China will do everything in its power to discredit that proof. As a convincing case requires evidence from the Chinese, good luck with that.

How badly China’s reputation would be damaged would depend on the extent of Chinese negligence or malfeasance. Remember that countries all around the world experiment with viruses, usually to get ahead of viruses which may cause pandemics in the future. A stuff up at a lab that results in a virus escaping is certainly far from what one might expect from a Bond villain. The international community would be mildly pissed off and expect that China would tighten its precautions in future. Far more opprobrium would attach to attempts to cover up the outbreak and its origin but China has largely been condemned already for failing to cover up the initial outbreak.

What would be more damaging for China is if it were working with Covid in secret as a biological weapon. There has been some reporting that some time ago some unfortunate miners were sent in to clear out bat droppings without any PPE and contracted Covid-like symptoms. The reporting suggests that this virus was then studied in labs but the Chinese never followed the protocol requiring them to notify WHO about the virus and their research. Was that breach of protocol deliberate and does it suggest military research? Perhaps, but a conspiracy theory doesn’t equal proof. Even the most extreme conspiracy theory would stop short of suggesting a deliberate release of Covid. Infecting your own people in the hope planes would carry the virus overseas would be next-level Bond villainy. It would be easier to infect people overseas and avoid fingers being pointed directly at China.

As it stands, the case that it escaped from the a Chinese lab is merely plausible rather than compelling. The weight of scientific opinion remains that it was a natural contagion.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 06-07-2021

(06-07-2021, 04:18 AM)Mav date Wrote:As it stands, the case that it escaped from the a Chinese lab is merely plausible rather than compelling. The weight of scientific opinion remains that it was a natural contagion.
Yes, this is clearly the consensus.

In reality these are two different issues, the origin of the virus and how it spread, but there is a segment of society that is vulnerable to a false premise, the Trump artform. Because they assume a virus escaping from a lab means it's an engineered virus, the false premise, after all what other sort of virus might escape a lab than a man made GMO virus?

The chance of it being an engineered virus does not increase with the chances of it escaping a lab, it's still most likely a naturally evolved contagion regardless of how it spread!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - capcom - 06-07-2021

All fair points [member=122]Mav[/member]

But it was seriously stupid for him to flip flop on the origin of covid.  About as ignorant as suggesting a second mask would make no difference to the increase in infections.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-07-2021

Contact tracing.....the facts, $24 an hour.....staff member had/made two calls for the shift....yep working hard.
Staff are also not professionals just workers who have lost positions due to covid, in this case airline workers.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 06-07-2021

(06-07-2021, 05:09 AM)ElwoodBlues1 date Wrote:Contact tracing.....the facts, $24 an hour.....staff member had/made two calls for the shift....yep working hard.
Staff are also not professionals just workers who have lost positions due to covid, in this case airline workers.
Nearly all Vic contact tracers are volunteers, we have two girls here(accountants/clerks) at work that do it part time for the extra $.

I'm not sure what is expected, I haven't seen this on offer as a Tafe course!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-07-2021

(06-07-2021, 05:58 AM)LP link Wrote:Nearly all Vic contact tracers are volunteers, we have two girls here(accountants/clerks) at work that do it part time for the extra $.

I'm not sure what is expected, I haven't seen this on offer as a Tafe course!
2 calls in a day isnt working hard and the job needs a level of competence, we are talking about peoples lives.
The people i know who are doing it couldnt plug a dog and a bone together much less trace the movements of CoVid infection's.
We are playing for keeps not finding work for the unemployed or those wanting some extra bingo money.
We should be using the army, police or private security operators with some expertise in the area of tracing people...


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Mav - 06-07-2021

If I had police or the army ringing me up, I’d respond “no comment” to every question.

Although it frustrates me when anti-social arseholes aren’t prosecuted when their reckless behaviour infects others, it’s clearly in the public interest for contact tracers to put them at ease so they give as much info as they can. Police and soldiers probably won’t do that.

“Hello, Detective Sergeant Jones here. Could you tell me your whereabouts over the last 2 weeks?”