(10-04-2022, 10:30 PM)Lods link Wrote:Yep
The propoganda machines on both sides are in full swing.
History is written by the winner.

Be careful of anything you read from both sides.

The Ukranians seem to be doing well.
The Russians are even acknowledging this.
Russia is clearly the 'military' aggressor in this conflict.
The devastation in Ukranian cities is indisputable.
Rockets are flying into Ukranian cities, They're not flying into Moscow.
I'd naturally put more faith in the anti-Russian press.

But don't take for gospel everything from the Western side.

Quote:If we turn to sterotypes then the answer will be that I am a military man, a paratrooper, I am
obliged to follow orders and do not have the right to chicken out and not go to war when it
starts; I am obliged to serve for the good of my country and to protect the people of Russia.
But then common sense begins to argue and ask questions.

"Did Ukraine threaten Russia?"

Everyone says that Ukraine wanted to join NATO, but do we attack every country that wants to join NATO?
Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Poland are already in NATO. Finland is joining NATO now. Our plane was shot down over TUrkey not long ago, but we quickly forgot this, we have a dispute with Japan about the Kuril Islands. Hell the US borders us to the East. But all this for some reason is not a pretext for starting a war. We're not attacking them, or is that just for now?

It turns out that it is not the reason.

"If we had not attacked Ukraine, would they have attacked us?"

Many echo the TV, saying that we launched a preemptive strike, but how can you believe that Ukraine would have attacked Russia, Crimea, if the armed forces of Ukraine could not hold their own borders? They wage this war on the defensive, suffering huge losses. Everyone knows that defensive warfare is easier than attacking. How could this country (Ukraine), which can hardly defend itself, slowly losing its territories, attack? And would it not be easier for our army to strengthen the borders and defenses around Ukraine and, in the even of an attack, meet the enemy on the defensive, break their offensive capabilities and go on the counterattack? Indeed, in this case, our losses would have been much less, and the world community would not be able to accuse Russia of aggression and "condemn" our country as an occupier and invader. It turns out that the Ukraine was going to attack Russia was also a lie?

"Was Ukraine overrun by Nazism and did they infringe on the Russian population (of Ukraine)?"

I talked with people who were in Ukraine before the war, and, oddly enough, no one was able to remember a specific case where someone was infringed upon or offended them for having a Russian surname or for not being able to speak Ukrainian. And some isolated cases of domestic conflicts on ethnic grounds can be found in every country in the world.

"Did we attack to save the DNR and LNR?"

What is the DNR and LNR? Indeed, in fact and legality, these are two regions that were part of Ukraine and then rebelled and decided to become independent. Isn't this the same as if Karelia wanted to join Finland, Smolensk region to Lithuania, Rostov region to Ukraine, Yakutia to USA or Khabarovsk to China, isn't this the same? Why are we defending the LDNR? Did it make the ordinary people in the Donbas feel better? After all, in the Russian Federation we would not have tolerated this, just as we didn't give Chechnya indedependence, paying for it with thousands of lives. Why did we arrange the same without neighbours? But at the same time, the leaders of the LPR and DPR, despite the support of the Russian government were unable to provide their residence with social security and safety, which is why people fled en masse to Russia, Crimea and Ukraine. In conversation with people who fled the war in Donetsk and Luhansk, I did not hear about the cases of Nazism that are shouted about from our media. But all as one spoke about the fact that they fled from the war and that they just want to live and work in peace. If we tried in every possible way to help the people of Donetsk and Luhansk, then why didn't we just limit ourselves to providing Russia passports to everyone? We have plenty of empty land that no human hands have touched, please let them come, live and work with us. Why do we need the territory of a foreign state? What for? Are we short on land? People really believe that all those who wanted to live in Russia have not yet received Russian passports and moved to us?

(11-14-2022, 11:15 PM)DJC link Wrote:I just came across a photograph of a bog-standard Russian T-62 main battle tank captured by Ukrainian forces.  That's bog-standard as in how it rolled off the assembly line between 1961 and 1975; no upgrades, additional armour or modifications.  The T-62 is roughly the equivalent of the British Chieftain (withdrawn from service in 1995) and the German Leopard 1 (withdrawn from Australian service in 2004) although the Chieftain was a superior tank.

The Russians seem reluctant to deploy their T-90 MBTs in any numbers and their most recent MBT, the T-14, seems to be limited to military parades.  Relying on museum pieces to counter NATO's (not to mention Israel's and Australia's) latest military hardware isn't going to work. 

You can't infer much from a photograph of one captured tank but, coupled with Russian setbacks and their withdrawal from Kherson, it seems that Putin's senseless war may be coming to an end.

(11-14-2022, 11:35 PM)Baggers link Wrote:I hope you're right, David, though what worries me is that Putin withdraws troops from an area where he intends to deploy a nuclear bomb.

(11-14-2022, 11:35 PM)Baggers link Wrote:I hope you're right, David, though what worries me is that Putin withdraws troops from an area where he intends to deploy a nuclear bomb.