+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Princes Park (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Robert Heatley Stand (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-14.html)
+--- Thread: Docherty standing down (/thread-5500.html)
Re: Docherty standing down - LP - 01-14-2022
(01-14-2022, 05:48 AM)kruddler date Wrote:They've just introduced the stand rule into the AFLW, no chance they will scrap it a few weeks later for the mens game....not this year at least.Personally, I think if a club builds an A-Grade list with good depth across all positions like the Demons have done, then the rules make no fecking difference!
Re: Docherty standing down - kruddler - 01-14-2022
(01-14-2022, 05:55 AM)LP link Wrote:Personally, I think if a club builds an A-Grade list with good depth across all positions like the Demons have done, then the rules make no fecking difference!The dees only have a good list because they had no injuries.
3 years ago they were where we were last year.
Re: Docherty standing down - DJC - 01-14-2022
(01-14-2022, 12:46 AM)Lods link Wrote:When Cripps is on his game, and at his best, it really doesn't matter what his opponents are doing.
He's the problem that the opposition need to deal with.
Where it's become a problem for us is that in recent times Cripps hasn't been that influential...it's then that his opponents become an issue for us.
I think that's a key issue Lods; if Cripps is dominating, or even just winning his share of contests, who gives a fat rat's clacker about what his opponent is doing. If Cripps is hampered by injury, his opponent's possessions become more important.
To my mind, the real issue is not Cripps's ability to run with his opponent. It's how the coach organises the team to (a) maximise the benefits of Cripps's ability to win contested possessions and (b) to minimise the influence of Cripps's opponent. Surely, it's not too difficult to come up with a structure that enables Cripps to focus on winning the pill and defending one of the less demanding opponents. If Cripps's tagger is tagged by one of our elite runners, say O'Brien, that tagger is going to focus more on breaking his tag than sticking to the main man.
With Voss, Power, Clarke and O'Keefe on our coaching panel, and Diesel in the wings, coming up with a plan to get the best out of Cripps should be a piece of p1ss. It should also be within their ability to let Crippa know that he doesn't have win each game off his own boot and 3 or 4 mercurial efforts per game are more than enough.
It's a no brainer that Doc has relinquished the co-captaincy. He needs to focus on his own wellbeing and, as Voss mentioned, he will still be a leader regardless of his official capacity.
I would leave Cripps as captain with Weitering and Walsh as vice-captains.
Re: Docherty standing down - cookie2 - 01-14-2022
@ DJC
Yes, agree with most of that. Just not sure about Cripps remaining as captain, although taking it away from him may create some problems.
Re: Docherty standing down - Lods - 01-14-2022
I'd like to see the Weitering/Walsh combination.
Not as dual captains, but in the more traditional C/VC role.
I'm thinking that will probably happen, so the question is one of timing.
In some respects the new President/CEO/Coach changes should make this a good time, but....
We're looking at it from a distance.
That means we're probably not in the best position to understand the team dynamics, who the players see as the driving forces and which players they respect in terms of leadership.
How has the dual captaincy sat with Cripps?
Has he felt like it's a partial role and will he be better suited in the solo role.
Maybe it's best to leave it to the folks at the coalface, with access to a wide variety of player views to thrash this one out.
Re: Docherty standing down - DJC - 01-15-2022
(01-14-2022, 11:21 PM)Lods link Wrote:I'd like to see the Weitering/Walsh combination.
Not as dual captains, but in the more traditional C/VC role.
I'm thinking that will probably happen, so the question is one of timing.
In some respects the new President/CEO/Coach changes should make this a good time, but....
We're looking at it from a distance.
That means we're probably not in the best position to understand the team dynamics, who the players see as the driving forces and which players they respect in terms of leadership.
How has the dual captaincy sat with Cripps?
Has he felt like it's a partial role and will he be better suited in the solo role.
Maybe it's best to leave it to the folks at the coalface, with access to a wide variety of player views to thrash this one out.
A novel idea Lods
Surely the club won't make any decision before scrutinising every post here :
Re: Docherty standing down - kruddler - 01-15-2022
re Cripps as captain....it was made quite clear that he was one of the players who did NOT stand with Teague.....meaning he was one who was sought an opinion on should Teague stay. Given Teague is no longer there, we know Cripps' answer.
So, he put himself above that of the team (at least part of the team 10+ names confirmed as pro-teague) which is not unlike how he plays on game day, me me me.
Take the captaincy of him, force him to focus more on team rather than him trying to carry the team (and failing) and choosing our direction without having a map.
The way i look at it, the only 'pro' to keeping Cripps as captain is because he is already captain. Thats not enough of a reason for mine.
Re: Docherty standing down - ElwoodBlues1 - 01-15-2022
(01-15-2022, 02:57 AM)kruddler link Wrote:re Cripps as captain....it was made quite clear that he was one of the players who did NOT stand with Teague.....meaning he was one who was sought an opinion on should Teague stay. Given Teague is no longer there, we know Cripps' answer.Tend to agree, I favor Weitering as Captain and Walsh as VC. I think Cripps has to concentrate on his football more and get some runs on the board this season. He was struggling with fitness, couldnt kick over a jam jar and mentally out of it as well and has been that way for the last couple of seasons. I appreciate his partner has been unwell and that would have taken its toll so I think we need to help him by relieving him of the captains duties and making his role more simple.
So, he put himself above that of the team (at least part of the team 10+ names confirmed as pro-teague) which is not unlike how he plays on game day, me me me.
Take the captaincy of him, force him to focus more on team rather than him trying to carry the team (and failing) and choosing our direction without having a map.
The way i look at it, the only 'pro' to keeping Cripps as captain is because he is already captain. Thats not enough of a reason for mine.
With Cerra now in the team and Hewett I think he can back to "see ball get ball" footy and with extra kegs back on the frame he can be the beast he once was. If that doesnt transpire this season then I would give consideration to trading him back to WA while he still has decent market value.
Voss also has to come up with a game plan to help him out and maximize his impact, Voss being a gun mid himself should know exactly what is needed and be able to execute a game plan to suit...no excuses this season and I expect Cripps to be racking up the three votes.
Re: Docherty standing down - Lods - 01-15-2022
(01-15-2022, 02:57 AM)kruddler link Wrote:re Cripps as captain....it was made quite clear that he was one of the players who did NOT stand with Teague.....meaning he was one who was sought an opinion on should Teague stay. Given Teague is no longer there, we know Cripps' answer.
So, he put himself above that of the team (at least part of the team 10+ names confirmed as pro-teague) which is not unlike how he plays on game day, me me me.
Take the captaincy of him, force him to focus more on team rather than him trying to carry the team (and failing) and choosing our direction without having a map.
The way i look at it, the only 'pro' to keeping Cripps as captain is because he is already captain. Thats not enough of a reason for mine.
There's a fair bit of speculation in all that Kruds.
Unless we were in the thick of that we have no idea of the divisions or player dynamics....or in fact Cripps's role.
He may have expressed some elements of concern to Sayers, who with an agenda of his own, has run with it.
Cripps, and perhaps Docherty may have been the trigger to the review but they didn't determine the outcome.
I have a feeling that amongst the players who expressed support for Teague after he was sacked, there may have been some who were critical during the review but didn't think (or want) it to end in his termination.
For some there may have been a "What have I done moment?" followed by a 'don't sack him sentiment.'
How was the team divided in their opinions?
Many of the younger and newer players would have been of an age that they were heavily influenced by older players?
What was Cripp's role and behaviour during the period of the review in terms of his direction and guidance to his team-mates?
We can't say he put himself 'above the others'...at best we can say he may have had a different view to some.
It's all a guess, but the bottom line is there are people in the club with a much better idea of the behaviour during that review and if someone has acted in a divisive manner, and that hasn't been settled, then a change may be warranted.
Re: Docherty standing down - kruddler - 01-15-2022
[member=906]Lods[/member]...
Speculation? Yes and No.
Silence is deafening at times.
We don't know the dynamics between players, nor who Cripps was influencing one way or another.
BUT, as captain, there are certain things you need to do and thats provide unity.
Its a tricky one, i'd much prefer a "The coach has got the full support of the board" type message from Cripps even if it is ultimately hollow. We didn't get that from him....we should've.
The media speculation (yes, speculation) was pretty clear on who was going into bat for the coach, and his name was nowhere to be found. Even once the names are posted, and you're not on it, you should make an effort to stick up for your coach and/or say something positive about him. Barely a peep.
All that being said, it goes back to what i said before. As far as i can tell, the only 'pro' to Cripps being captain is because he is already captain. Not good enough.