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+--- Thread: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks (/thread-5206.html)
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - Lods - 05-06-2021
After an enthusiastic start I've turned right off the women's game.
I hardly watched any this last season.
I realise that may be against the trend, and the bits of games I did see showed the skills are improving.
I think the thing that unsettled me most was some of the player movements, where you would get invested in certain players only to have them leave.
A lot of this had to do with new clubs coming into the competition
Now this will settle down eventually and clubs will become more stable.
I understand all the points Kruddler is making and also understand that at this time promoting the competition is important and takes precedence over the footballing ability.
But until 'football' becomes the focus it all seems a bit artificial.
If there is to be credibility and equality then players need to be judged and rewarded, just as the men are, on their ability to influence games.
Good luck to Harris, she has a rightly deserved high profile across a range of areas and she should make 'hay while the sun shines', and squeeze out as much as possible, because a few years down the track the criteria for contracts will probably have a different emphasis.
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - Gointocarlton - 05-07-2021
(05-06-2021, 10:58 PM)Lods link Wrote:After an enthusiastic start I've turned right off the women's game.Thats my issue with Harris, the only influencing she did this year (and last year probably) was on instagram.
I hardly watched any this last season.
I realise that may be against the trend, and the bits of games I did see showed the skills are improving.
I think the thing that unsettled me most was some of the player movements where you would get invested in certain players only to have them leave.
A lot of this had to do with new clubs coming into the competition
Now this will settle down eventually and clubs will become more stable.
I understand all the points Kruddler is making and also understand that at this time promoting the competition is important and takes precedence over the footballing ability.
But until 'football' becomes the focus it all seems a bit artificial.
If there is to be credibility and equality then players need to be judged and rewarded, just as the men are, on their ability to influence games.
Good luck to Harris, she has a rightly deserved high profile across a range of areas and she should make 'hay while the sun shines', and squeeze out as much as possible, because a few years down the track the criteria for contracts will probably have a different emphasis.
Off field, I am sure she does a power of work in the gender equality space, good on her. She is a handy boxer also, tick, great. On field this year, she did less than SFA and her team mates were less than impressed with her leaving the track to post on instagram, what a tool. Some will say she was injured, I say she was hugely distracted by her off field stuff and was in poor condition for a lot of the year. So on the basis of game influencing, I say ta ta Tayla if you can get more elsewhere.
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - Thryleon - 05-07-2021
Its ridiculous that a comparison to the men's wages is being brought up already. Less than five years in I saw a call for pay parity on TV.
Equal pay should men equal performance. Average men's wage is 260k accordingly to averages.
This is down from 350 not long ago probably thanks to covid and subsidising the women's game.
Add the TV rights and the women playing half a season at best and you have illogical arguments.
They need to grow their game organically. Not demand equality off the bat.
Poor form really.
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - LP - 05-07-2021
I have no problem with Tayla being well rewarded, but it has to be in context of on-field performance and relative to the rest of the team and competition.
Cynically, some will be stating Tayla deserves the money, but primarily that is because they will argue the case given they are paid relative. If Tayla gets more, I get more!
As for arguing Carlton should pay because it influences little girls to barrack for Tayla and by association Carlton. As fans that might work, but the draft means there is little on field benefit for future generations of Carlton players for that cash. I'd also argue winning a flag does as much if not more for Carlton. So if Tayla is to be some sort of competition wide role model to attract girls to the sport, why isn't the AFL stumping up some cash?
I'm not sure Tayla's game style is such an attraction for parents of young girls, I think [member=57]ElwoodBlues1[/member] stated as much during the season!
PS; We should not necessarily judge Tayla based on what her manager publicly states, perhaps Tayla is poorly advised which is why I'd love to hear what she has to say directly!
Why not be as forthright about this as she is on Instagram or Twitter about other issues?
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - PaulP - 05-07-2021
I think the women's game, much like the men's, has a pecking order, and Tayla, much like Dangerfield, Bont, Dusty, is at the very top of that pecking order, and we need to compare like with like. When you look at how much those men get paid, Tayla is asking for one fifth or one sixth of their salary. Of course, her form was off this year, but you don't dock the men simply based on output. Charlie Curnow and Marchbank would earn $10 / week if that was the case.
Reading the internet, reports are saying the relationship between her and Carlton is strained, so she may be playing elsewhere next season.
On the surface, her actions may look like greed, and maybe that's all they are, but these things can sometimes have a flow on effect, and you may end up with most, if not all the girls, being better paid.
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - LP - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 12:47 AM)PaulP date Wrote:Of course, her form was off this year, but you don't dock the men simply based on output.All the players you list above, Bont, Dusty or Dangerfield, performed before the big money contracts came to them.
I don't think anybody is demanding no play no pay, that is a confusion of two different issues.
Men do in effect get docked, when form drops contracts drop, so I'm not sure that point is relevant either. We spend a lot of time here debating what trade targets are worth, relative to other players in the competition, how is it different for the girls when judge relative to the other girls. Isn't that the right relative frame of reference?
Don't get me wrong, I'd like Tayla, want her to stay a blue, and want her rewarded. But I also want her reward to be delivered without hurting her team-mates reward or remuneration, what of Harrington, Vescio, Prespakis, Moody, Gee, Egan, McKay, etc., etc.?
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - PaulP - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 02:14 AM)LP link Wrote:All the players you list above, Bont, Dusty or Dangerfield, performed before the big money contracts came to them.
I don't think anybody is demanding no play no pay, that is a confusion of two different issues.
Men do in effect get docked, when form drops contracts drop, so I'm not sure that point is relevant either. We spend a lot of time here debating what trade targets are worth, relative to other players in the competition, how is it different for the girls when judge relative to the other girls. Isn't that the right relative frame of reference?
Don't get me wrong, I'd like Tayla, want her to stay a blue, and want her rewarded. But I also want her reward to be delivered without hurting her team-mates reward or remuneration, what of Harrington, Vescio, Prespakis, Moody, Gee, Egan, McKay, etc., etc.?
Yep, those are fair points, and I don't really have an answer, except to say that I hope Tayla is motivated by something more than personal gain (being the empathetic person I am).
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - LP - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 03:00 AM)PaulP date Wrote:Yep, those are fair points, and I don't really have an answer, except to say that I hope Tayla is motivated by something more than personal gain (being the empathetic person I am).Note to Tayla, heed Dimma's words to Shai Bolton.
Sometimes money is what must be sacrificed to be successful!
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - kruddler - 05-07-2021
(05-06-2021, 10:06 PM)LP link Wrote:True.
All the other examples you offered, Judd and Franklin, were already at the top when they got the big dollars, that is how it works performance before pay.
Promises are hollow, performance is real!
re Judd and Franklin, yes they were on the top of their game.....but they got PLENTY for their outside of football endeavors, which was the point.
re Taylas football output, this season was a poor showing, but Tayla is a 2x Carlton leading goalkicker, and 2x All australian. She is the best contested mark in the game, and has about the best bump in the game too. She is not without her talents, even if it was not on show this year.
FWIW, i'm not sure if anyone even read the article i linked, but Eddie McGuire was saying she deserves it, and the AFL should fit some of the bill for it.......in the same way that the AFL funds superstars going to the northern states.....like Buddy Franklin for instance.
From our end though, i would make it heavily incentivised, Give her lots of bonuses rather than guaranteed cash. If she wants it, and think she deserves it....prove it.
Re: Harris at Odds over Contract Talks - Thryleon - 05-07-2021
(05-07-2021, 12:47 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I think the women's game, much like the men's, has a pecking order, and Tayla, much like Dangerfield, Bont, Dusty, is at the very top of that pecking order, and we need to compare like with like. When you look at how much those men get paid, Tayla is asking for one fifth or one sixth of their salary. Of course, her form was off this year, but you don't dock the men simply based on output. Charlie Curnow and Marchbank would earn $10 / week if that was the case.
Reading the internet, reports are saying the relationship between her and Carlton is strained, so she may be playing elsewhere next season.
On the surface, her actions may look like greed, and maybe that's all they are, but these things can sometimes have a flow on effect, and you may end up with most, if not all the girls, being better paid.
Without putting people in any stratospheres as its neither here nor there, the men's players get the money rolling in that supports the aflw competition.
The girls rightly or wrongly play at most about 12 matches a season. They aren't fully professional yet and frankly, I dont think they should be at such a high wage bracket irrespective of how much one puts on their value.
Particularly when if the women's game stood on its own two feet they couldn't afford to pay her.
How does this compare to the rest of her peers?
Note: she's currently on 75k. Thats my annual full time wage. She's asking for 150k next year. Its a large amount and a creep up to 100k might be more applicable.