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+--- Thread: Winning isn't everything (/thread-4293.html)
Re: Winning isn't everything - LP - 05-13-2019
If we change the coach do we change Cripps mind too?
While Cripps' is happy, and while he can see light at the end of the tunnel, should we be happy too?
Personally, I get the frustration, but I don't get the desperation!
Desperation was appointing MM in the dying years of Judd's career, what we are doing now is not desperate, it's far far from it!
I think as a group, the MC is on the right track, we are just frustrated at how long it all takes!
Re: Winning isn't everything - Thryleon - 05-13-2019
Also if you have a look at Hawthorn's record before their rebuild began:
1999 - 9th
2000 - 8th
2001 - 6th
2002 - 10th
2003 - 9th
2004 - 15th
2005 - 14th
2006 - 11th
2007 - 5th
2008 - 2nd
2009 - 9th
2010 - 7th
2011 - 3rd
2012 - 1st
2013 - Premiers
2014 - Premiers
2015 - Premiers
2016 - 3rd
2017 - 12th
2018 - 4th
2019 ??
It becomes really clear why we are where we are at, and why its definitely going to take us a bit longer to really get moving:
Carlton:
1999 - 6th
2000 - 2nd
2001 - 5th
2002 - 16th
2003 - 15th
2004 - 11th
2005 - 16th
2006 - 16th
2007 - 15th
2008 - 11th
2009 - 7th
2010 - 8th
2011- 5th
2012 - 9th
2013 - 9th
2014 - 13th
2015 - 18th
2016 - 14th
2017 - 16th
2018 - 18th
2019 - ????
The point being, that Hawthorn, rallied on the back of a couple of years in the wilderness. We are trying to undo a culture of failure dating 18 years with a brief period out of that wilderness coinciding with us having a coach coaching for results, and having access to some genuine superstars. Moral of the story, we forgot to develope for the future and ended up right back on the bottom of the pile, because we are used to assembling a team and going for a premiership.
We are not doing that this time. We are building one from scratch using the squad that SOS built, and if anyone is still around from before to taste some success, bonus.
Re: Winning isn't everything - Lods - 05-13-2019
(05-13-2019, 03:38 AM)LP link Wrote:If we change the coach do we change Cripps mind too?
While Cripps' is happy, and while he can see light at the end of the tunnel, should we be happy too?
Personally, I get the frustration, but I don't get the desperation!
Desperation was appointing MM in the dying years of Judd's career, what we are doing now is not desperate, it's far far from it!
I think as a group, the MC is on the right track, we are just frustrated at how long it all takes!
We don't know where Cripps' mind is at.
Happy after the Bulldogs game, Filthy after the weekend.
I think Cripps probably has a certain loyalty to Bolton, whether that outweighs his bond with his team-mates who knows.
Decisions should never be made based on individual players.
Our greatest ever player wasn't bigger than the club.
Re: Winning isn't everything - ElwoodBlues1 - 05-13-2019
Franklin, Roughead and Lewis in one year...thats your rebuild, three A graders in one draft doesnt happen ever......
Re: Winning isn't everything - thefutureisblue - 05-13-2019
I simply don't understand why people are saying we should have more wins this season. What is this based on?
In EVERY game this season, we have been the underdogs based on match odds. This is despite very solid and competitive performances.
We currently have 1 MORE win than expected by the general public.
I know everyone wants to win every game, but objectively, haven't we actually overachieved so far this season?
Personally, I'd rather by in the position we are now, than teams like Essendon and Melbourne who are drastically underachieving.
So be frustrated, be disappointed, be passionate.
But also be realistic and honest when suggesting how many wins we SHOULD have.
Re: Winning isn't everything - Lods - 05-13-2019
Just to be clear..
This isn't a thread advocating we replace Bolton.
It's a thread that's about changing the focus from development to winning games.
Saving the coach is just one aspect of a whole heap of positives that come from winning
At some point winning becomes very important.
I reckon we're just about at that point.
"The wins will come eventually" starts to get a bit stale.
Of course they'll come eventually, for any club...that's how the competition is structured.
For how long that can be sustained is the real unknown.
Re: Winning isn't everything - Thryleon - 05-13-2019
(05-13-2019, 04:00 AM)thefutureisblue link Wrote:I simply don't understand why people are saying we should have more wins this season. What is this based on?
In EVERY game this season, we have been the underdogs based on match odds. This is despite very solid and competitive performances.
We currently have 1 MORE win than expected by the general public.
I know everyone wants to win every game, but objectively, haven't we actually overachieved so far this season?
Personally, I'd rather by in the position we are now, than teams like Essendon and Melbourne who are drastically underachieving.
So be frustrated, be disappointed, be passionate.
But also be realistic and honest when suggesting how many wins we SHOULD have.
Actually I think we have one less win than I expected us to have, but that was just a matter of timing and the fact that we didnt punish them on the scoreboard like we should have.
i.e. The bulldogs win was expected given the side we fielded vs theirs and we should have won against the Gold Coast.
Re: Winning isn't everything - flyboy77 - 05-13-2019
i note the '76ers just went down 92-90 (and 4/3) after a miracle on the buzzer 2 pointer!
Re: Winning isn't everything - madbluboy - 05-13-2019
(05-13-2019, 03:58 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Franklin, Roughead and Lewis in one year...thats your rebuild, three A graders in one draft doesnt happen ever......
Weitering, McKay and Curnow is looking good.
Re: Winning isn't everything - ElwoodBlues1 - 05-13-2019
(05-13-2019, 07:02 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Weitering, McKay and Curnow is looking good.
Looking ok but those Hawks three were something else to pick up in one year...Buddy is a freak, Roughead the ultimate team man and cool head plus Lewis
a brutal tough nut who could also play at the top level.
Ours our talented but those Hawks had a real self confident attitude to go with the talent and the ideal coach in Clarko to harness it all.
I was told by a Carlton Recruiting scout that our recruiting dept considered Lewis a fat slow kid with no upside who would never make it and he was just a flat track U18 bully..we could have those three Hawk picks and fecked up the three of them IMO...