+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Princes Park (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Robert Heatley Stand (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-14.html)
+--- Thread: What are your expectations for 2017? (/thread-3167.html)
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - cookie2 - 03-18-2017
@Baggers
Good post Baggers - I think they are reasonable hopes/expectations, based on the fact that you've seen the guys in the preseason. I'm looking forward to R1 next week to check 'em out.
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - mateinone - 03-18-2017
(03-18-2017, 05:13 AM)PaulP link Wrote:MIO, I just want to clarify - the equation as you see it, is thus :
- if the club traded out "everyone", and the list was 90%? new or newish recruits, then you could tolerate a non linear progression up / down the ladder, and after a few years of up/down, then leading to success ?
- because the club hung onto its stars, and only went for a "partial" rebuild, then progression up the ladder must be linear only, moving slowly upwards but never downwards ?
Paul
If we had tried the blank canvas, I would have expected the losses and seen that as still a progression, and what is more I would have expected to see continued progression in results.
My view is that the club has assessed (wrongly) that the we were best placed holding these players and as such, considering we are on a rebuild that means we expect to progress from last year..
If the club goes backwards this year at all, I am not sure what we gained by holding onto older players who I don't think are good enough when we could already be using that money to ensure the future.
I don't really want to try and argue for a rebuild again though. I just wanted to more raise the point that we should have expectations, that the clubs actions should be a message to us where they see us and that we should therefore be able to say.. Okay well then I expect this level in return.
If the club had gone a different path my expectations would have been different, including if somehow they had managed to draft in a raft of stars.
I don't think it is unreasonable to hold the club accountable for their decisions/strategies
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - ElwoodBlues1 - 03-18-2017
As I have said before one of our problems is the rate of improvement, other teams are not standing still waiting for us to catch up, we have to improve at a greater rate than last year and hope a few of the teams in front and those who were below dont improve at the same rate, stagnate go backwards..
Even a 5-10% rate of improvement may not be enough to see us progress much higher than last season or even go backwards....
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - Lods - 03-18-2017
The one thing we cant afford, and my greatest concern, is that we have to reset the rebuild.
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - mateinone - 03-18-2017
(03-18-2017, 06:37 AM)Lods link Wrote:The one thing we cant afford, and my greatest concern, is that we have to reset the rebuild.
I agree completely
@EB I agree, however it should be expected that if we are at 60% of the strength of the top team, we should be able to make more improvements than most teams at 85%.
For a team 5th it is understandable to improve, but go backwards, team in our situation should be moving forward without excuses
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - kruddler - 03-18-2017
(03-18-2017, 05:03 AM)mateinone link Wrote:How have you drawn that conclusion? Apart from Gibbs, did we have any negotiations around Murphy, Kreuzer, Thomas, Casboult etc?
Without us knowing either way, I consider it irrelevant. If the list managers have done such a terrible job that we have no one that other clubs are after, then that is worse.
You've answered your own question there.
List managers/recruiters/developers have all been changed in the past few years basically for that reason. Our 'talent' isn't living up to expectation for one reason or another.
So while you consider it irrelevant, i can not agree.
Casboult was signed up very late in the footballing year and only given a 1 year contract. Highly likely that he was up for trade, but nobody wanted him. Rather than try and find someone to take his spot from a rookie list. We keep him on for another year on minimum chips.
Kreuzer has had a world of injuries and has been rumoured to have failed multiple medicals in the years past. Clubs might not want to take the risk like we did with Thomas.
Murphy, for the same reasons. Injury concerns. Clubs would be wary of a club trying to trade out its captain who hasn't played for the last half of the year. If i'm a buyer, that sends off alarm bells.
Thomas....you expect someone to buy him?
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - mateinone - 03-18-2017
Kruddler I agree Casboult would have unlikely had any suitors, but think we should have been looking or offloading.
I do think that Murphy & Kreuzer would have had clubs after them, they do after all improve many clubs, that is obvious.
With Thomas, I think yes, someone might have been interested if we paid 50% or 60% of his salary, I still see that as a complete win.
I do believe we had some ability to trade deeper, of the club had shopped players around it would have got out and their respective managers would have hit the airs trying to get deals for their players also.. I have no evidence they didn't shop players around, but the lack of evidence to show they did speaks volumes
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - PaulP - 03-18-2017
(03-18-2017, 06:14 AM)mateinone link Wrote:Paul
If we had tried the blank canvas, I would have expected the losses and seen that as still a progression, and what is more I would have expected to see continued progression in results.
My view is that the club has assessed (wrongly) that the we were best placed holding these players and as such, considering we are on a rebuild that means we expect to progress from last year..
If the club goes backwards this year at all, I am not sure what we gained by holding onto older players who I don't think are good enough when we could already be using that money to ensure the future.
I don't really want to try and argue for a rebuild again though. I just wanted to more raise the point that we should have expectations, that the clubs actions should be a message to us where they see us and that we should therefore be able to say.. Okay well then I expect this level in return.
If the club had gone a different path my expectations would have been different, including if somehow they had managed to draft in a raft of stars.
I don't think it is unreasonable to hold the club accountable for their decisions/strategies
Fair enough. Thanks matey.
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - PaulP - 03-18-2017
(03-18-2017, 06:37 AM)Lods link Wrote:The one thing we cant afford, and my greatest concern, is that we have to reset the rebuild.
If we have to reset the rebuild, then maybe we can offer a complimentary rewire and re-plumb to appease the masses - if that fails, we can market ourselves as a "renovator's delight", or my personal favourite when I'm feeling low about the club, "renovate or detonate."
Bloody AFL jargon.
Re: What are your expectations for 2017? - PaulP - 03-18-2017
MIO, I'm surprised to hear you say that about Thomas. I'd be shocked if he found another home, irrespective of how much of his salary is subsidised.
I could see him in some type of coaching role.