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Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Printable Version

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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 01-20-2021

(01-20-2021, 11:15 AM)Lods date Wrote:I don't see how it isn't.
Biden's improved Clinton's vote by a lot more.
Getting people who didn't vote for you (or your party) four years ago to turn out and vote for you means that there must be some appeal there.
Convincing people who already support you to vote is not the same as picking up support, I realise this is a technical debate, but when you use a term like "with support he picked up" it's a bit Trumpesque!

It's the deliberately loose use of language, and promoting all opinions as equal, that got us into this mess!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 01-20-2021

(01-20-2021, 12:03 PM)Thryleon date Wrote:I'll make a call.

If George Floyd hadn't been killed sparking the BLM riots, Trump would have retained office.

His biggest issue was more about perception and this was deemed to be his fault publicly.
Well you are of course free to be wrong, as was Trump, as we all are.

We are also free to have an opinion, but nothing in nature states our opinions have to be treated equally, it's a perspective of life that many seem to struggle with, particularly it seems those who struggle the most are many with a high public profile!

I suspect Harris might be the next President.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Lods - 01-20-2021

(01-20-2021, 07:36 PM)PaulP link Wrote:My point was that no matter how many of the "hordes" love Trump and voted for him in 2 elections, his opponent in both of those elections received more popular votes. This led me to ponder just how popular he really is. Also remember that one of those, Hilary Clinton, is not only a woman, but is viewed as untrustworthy and openly disliked by sections of the American population. And she got more votes than the bloke who is, according to some on here, universally adored.

I see the point, but Biden and Clinton's popularity is not really relevant when assessing Trump's popularity.
Bill down  the street has more friends than I do...that doesn't mean I'm not popular...and am gathering new friends.
Sure the Democratic candidates attracted a lot more of the popular vote but...
Trump should have gone down in a screaming heap, voters should have deserted him in droves (and many did), but somehow he increased his vote by about 10 million.
That's ten million extra  people who were either satisfied with the way he was doing his job or were concerned about the alternative.
Now the fact that more folks turned out means both sides go up in numbers, but that doesn't negate the concerning reality that there was some factor that meant Trump attracted more people to vote for him than voted for him in 2016.
Trump's popularity claims (like most of his estimates) are over the top but how popular was he?..about 74 million (I suspect it's dropped a bit since November.)
You would think that the Democratic Party would be looking at those numbers with a little interest, and not dismissing them in the euphoria of victory in planning the next couple of years.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 01-20-2021

(01-20-2021, 08:49 PM)Lods date Wrote:Trump should have gone down in a screaming heap, voters should have deserted him in droves (and many did), but somehow he increased his vote by about 10 million.
Trump blamed the pain he inflicted on the masses on others, his lies were accepted by his followers on face value and have not been exposed, when some tried to like the FDA and CDC he burned them at the stake. When he did that he inflicted even more pain, I suspect the irony is that his supporters make up a rather large percentage of the COVID dead, and if the science is correct and can't find a fix that number will at least double over the next 6 - 12 months!

The truth will out, it always does, Watergate wasn't a fluke as it is portrayed in popular media, it was an inevitability!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - capcom - 01-20-2021

(01-20-2021, 12:03 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:I'll make a call.

If George Floyd hadn't been killed sparking the BLM riots, Trump would have retained office.

His biggest issue was more about perception and this was deemed to be his fault publicly.

In my mind, not a shadow of doubt about that Thry

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Lods - 01-20-2021

(01-20-2021, 08:40 PM)LP link Wrote:Convincing people who already support you to vote is not the same as picking up support, I realise this is a technical debate, but when you use a term like "with support he picked up" it's a bit Trumpesque!

It's the deliberately loose use of language, and promoting all opinions as equal, that got us into this mess!

It's the reality of the US electoral system.
Biden managed to motivate more of his folk to turn out.
If I don't feel committed enough to vote for a candidate in one election even though he shares my beliefs and I'm a registered voter for his party... If he picks up my vote in the following election he has "attracted my support."



Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 01-20-2021

(01-20-2021, 08:59 PM)Lods date Wrote:It's the reality of the US electoral system.
Biden managed to motivate more of his folk to turn out.
If I don't feel committed enough to vote for a candidate in one election even though he shares my beliefs and I'm a registered voter for his party... If he picks up my vote in the following election he has "attracted my support."
It's seems arbitrary to assert one voter response is more valid as a popularity measure while the other is just a motivation of existing supporters, have I missed a point?

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - madbluboy - 01-20-2021

The democrats want unity despite smashing Trump for 4 years. Good luck.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Lods - 01-20-2021

(01-20-2021, 09:20 PM)LP link Wrote:It's seems arbitrary to assert one voter response is more valid as a popularity measure while the other is just a motivation of existing supporters, have I missed a point?

Here's my concern.
We really don't know the motivation of those extra10 million who turned out for Trump.
Some may have been Republican voters who failed to vote last time but thought they'd give it a go this time.
But some may have been 'new comers' turned or motivated by the events of the last four years.
I'm not sure how you get into the head of each and everyone of those folks.
It's probably fair to say those extra 10 million are less 'rusted on' than Trump's extremist base.
They'll either become more committed in the next few years or go back to the couch.

I reckon it's a big mistake on the Democratic side if those numbers (and the other 60 odd million) are ignored, dismissed or diminished because they represent a strong base for future Republican leaders to mount an assault on seats of power.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - DJC - 01-20-2021

(01-20-2021, 07:36 PM)PaulP link Wrote:My point was that no matter how many of the "hordes" love Trump and voted for him in 2 elections, his opponent in both of those elections received more popular votes. This led me to ponder just how popular he really is. Also remember that one of those, Hilary Clinton, is not only a woman, but is viewed as untrustworthy and openly disliked by sections of the American population. And she got more votes than the bloke who is, according to some on here, universally adored.

And Biden was hardly an inspiring, popular candidate!  To paraphrase Bill Hayden, a drover’s dog could have led the Democrats to victory.

When you have the likes of Mitch McConnell turning on the ex-POTUS, the GOP base will quickly move on and leave a small MAGA residue mourning their delusional crybaby hero.