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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - cookie2 - 11-08-2020
It will be very interesting now to see how foreign policy unfolds especially wrgt the ME, Russia and China.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Thryleon - 11-08-2020
(11-08-2020, 11:25 AM)Mav link Wrote:To be fair, Thryleon, he was saying he just assumed any women would consent because he was a star, so he didn’t need to bother with looking for signs of consent or giving the woman any offramps. That’s indecent assault or rape if the woman in fact isn’t consenting.Mav, I think this is asserting its assault, rather than taking the comments at face value (see below).
Quote:Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
Bush: Whatever you want.
Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.
The “I’m a star/powerful person and she wanted me to do whatever I wanted” defence hasn’t served Bill Cosby, Harvey Weinstein or Roger Ailes well.
And the complaints from women show that on this occasion Trump wasn’t lying. One woman accused him of penis into vagina rape and is currently suing him for defamation after he called her a liar.
That's the key sentence here. He's not talking about rape, assault or anything. He's talking about consent.
Just because one woman accuses him of rape, even if true doesn't mean he rapes everyone he kisses, or that he is indeed talking about rape above.
I am well aware of the #metoo movement, and what that is trying to say, in respect to people using positions of power to sleep with people and coerce them into not having a choice. I think this is very different to that in Trump's case. He is aware that there are impressionable people trying to sleep their way into a society that they don't have access to via other methods, and far as I am concerned, no one is forced to do anything that they don't want to with the above comments, and its up to people to own their actions and responsibility for those actions.
What I am insinuating, is that there was consent, and then regret. Very different. Now you would have to know these people intimately, and seen what transpired to know better. I don't pretend to know to, but these comments have been used to paint him as a rapist and assaulter. That's not right IMHO.
This is very different to being preyed upon by others. Rape, assault, etc, is very much not what I am advocating for, and if found guilty of actions Trump should be persecuted and quite rightly and rather than her suing him for defamation for being liar, where is his conviction of rape to go with that? He wouldn't have been president at all if that were found to be accurate, let alone sued for defamation to go with it.
Look, people don't like him, and I understand why. I actually don't like the man either, but in the comments above, we see red blooded masculinity being lined up and whacked by the feminist agenda, not rape, assault, etc. Many a relationship would have failed to form without some of what Trump is talking here. These things dont occur like a contract, and I have never asked for permission to kiss someone, you just go for it, and then back off if knocked back.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 11-08-2020
(11-08-2020, 12:24 PM)Lods date Wrote:Different media outlets cover the same story with their own slant and bias.Even more than that [member=906]Lods[/member] , they do not even broadcast the same fake rhetoric in all regions/zones, entities like News Ltd will deliberately broadcast opposing views full of the cherrypicked fake facts and flase claims from both sides of the debate to cause controversy, ......... which rate$.
All people from any side of the debate will ever get to see is predominantly those obviously fake facts and false claims which just builds rage, it's completely artificial.
People on both sides of the debate wander around asking questions like "How can this be, how come nobody can see the problem with this? When in reality the media identified the problem long ago and still deliberately chose to run with it!
The people problem is that they have assumed we all see/read the same reports!
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Mav - 11-08-2020
Thryleon, his comments were rapey. Wayne Carey no doubt thought any woman walking outside a nightclub as he and his mates were exiting a nightclub in the morning would love him to grab her breasts. After all, he was the King and a current AFL superstar at the time. No doubt the girl whose breasts he grabbed “let him do it”, whether out of shock or fear. But even he didn’t try to claim consent when he was charged before a court. The only place a guy can go straight up to a woman and kiss her or grab her pussy is in a brothel. And probably not even there.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - capcom - 11-08-2020
... just throwing in Bill Clinton. Equally as vile if not more so given the proof of his conduct. Balance Danielson
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - LP - 11-08-2020
Trump exhibits a mentality that suggest the rumours might be true, I think you would find it hard to garnish defensive public support for Trump from anyone with a daughter regardless of their politics, and not just to the assault claims but based on a lot of other proclamations that are more than relevant in a sexism debate.
But I suppose some might question the legitimacy of the groping claims, after all Trumps hands are apparently very very small, but I suppose it's one act where size doesn't matter. It's quite sad this has become public domain!
I can fully understand why Trump's family are pleading with him to concede, he is taking them down with him, he is even going to burn the careers of the younger ones! If he is prepared to do that to his own family, burn their future for a remote chance at delivering a benefit to himself, how can anybody take seriously any his commentary about caring for the US public?
It's all very sad, we are watching a very public disintegration, and business people would have very strongly founded doubts about getting involved with this person in the future, he looks unstable! Is it perhaps symptoms of the COVID, some lingering mental duress?
There are aspects of how Trump has conducted himself in public since his COVID infection that seem almost child-like, I'm sure this change isn't just something I'm seeing because I oppose so many of his views, COVID triggered Alzheimer's perhaps. I'd be interested to know what others think?
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Thryleon - 11-09-2020
(11-08-2020, 11:19 PM)Mav link Wrote:Thryleon, his comments were rapey. Wayne Carey no doubt thought any woman walking outside a nightclub as he and his mates were exiting a nightclub in the morning would love him to grab her breasts. After all, he was the King and a current AFL superstar at the time. No doubt the girl whose breasts he grabbed “let him do it”, whether out of shock or fear. But even he didn’t try to claim consent when he was charged before a court. The only place a guy can go straight up to a woman and kiss her or grab her pussy is in a brothel. And probably not even there.
Mav, you are inferring rapey comments, because thats what suits your bias that you are viewing Trump through.
Like I said, if you take the comments at face value, "they let you do what you want" is the very definition of no push back.
Drawing comparisons to his comments, and sexual assault by another person, is very much trying to draw parallels, to a situation that is not the same because that was actually sexually assault.
I'll leave that there. Ever been fooling around with a girl, and then put your hand somewhere they were uncomfortable with only for them to move it, and then continue fooling around with you?
That has happened to me, and I apologised and we carried on dating for a little while afterwards.
Would that be rapey to you?
If someone comes across as Rapey, I could point the finger at Biden and call him a paedo based on the misinformation on the web. The footage is out there, where he is touching girls that seem not ok with it, but thats not fair. Its inferring it even if it comes across that way.
These things are not as black and white as they are made out to be, and if they were, it would ruin the excitement.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - Mav - 11-09-2020
(11-08-2020, 11:34 PM)capcom link Wrote:... just throwing in Bill Clinton. Equally as vile if not more so given the proof of his conduct. Balance DanielsonProblem with that is that you’ve got lost in the time line. The Access Hollywood tape was released before the 2016 when Trump’s character was in issue. And it was in his own words. In my view, the comments were fairly characterised as rapey. Thryleon says they weren’t. Bill Clinton has nothing to do with this unless we can find a Delorean and go back to 1992.
Bill Clinton has been diminished by the Monica Lewinsky affair and the public has warmed to Monica Lewinsky as time has gone on. Clinton used to be seen as a great campaigner for Democratic candidates. But whether because of age or diminished reputation, he was only a footnote in Biden’s coronation at the Democratic National Conference. IIRC, he was shown only for a few seconds in 1 video. I’m sure some mud stuck from the allegations made by other women but the fact the Republicans were involved in shaping them introduces some doubts as do troubling inconsistencies.
In any event, Trump’s Waterloo lies ahead of him. A prominent NY agony aunt columnist, E Jean Carroll, claimed in an autobiography that Trump shoved her into a change cubicle at a department store, physically overpowered her and raped her. He claimed she lied and he’s never even met her. Problem for him is there’s 2 photos of him talking to her at social events. She sued him for defamation. Bill Barr tried to run interference for Trump by instructing the DOJ to intervene and claim that Trump’s comment was government business, meaning that the proper defendant is the US government. If this were the case, the suit would have to be dismissed as the US government can’t be sued for defamation. The Judge rejected this argument.
Looks as if E Jean Carroll will be able to describe the alleged rape in open court and Trump will have to testify if he wants to argue his comments were true. Even though the alleged rape won’t be prosecuted, Johnny Depp has found that the secondary findings in a defamation case can influence the public’s view about someone. He was asked to withdraw from the next JK Rowling movie and has done so.
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - tonyo - 11-09-2020
(11-09-2020, 12:25 AM)Mav link Wrote:Bill Clinton has been diminished by the Monica Lewinsky affair
The only reason Clinton didn't get into deeper water over this was that when they did testing on the infamous blue dress, the results were deemed to be inconclusive because everyone from Arkansas has the same DNA..... :-)
Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) - madbluboy - 11-09-2020
Could you imagine the furore if there was footage of Trump touching little girls like there is of Biden?