Carlton Supporters Club
CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Social Club (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: Blah-Blah Bar (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-23.html)
+--- Thread: CV and mad panic behaviour (/thread-4651.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - PaulP - 03-17-2021

The decision to suspend the vaccines in those European countries is more political than scientific. That is my contention, and I believe it's also LP's contention.

Caution and risk/reward are not black and white. What may seem overly and unnecessarily cautious to some is seen by others as reasonable precaution.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - kruddler - 03-17-2021

(03-17-2021, 12:29 AM)LP link Wrote:I've already stated caution and scepticism are a critical part of the process when based on valid scientific evidence. I've mentioned that multiple times.

So the root assumption of your post is wrong.

[member=20]kruddler[/member]  Why do you think the checking, double checking and triple checking haven't already been if not being done at the moment?
If my root assumption is wrong, you wouldn't be arguing against me.

Never said they are not being done. Just saying in the scheme of things, if we delay the rollout (for those who want too) then nobody gets hurt. The virus is basically dead in the country currently. We are afforded somewhat of a luxury in dealing with this in terms of time compared to other countries......lets use some of it.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 03-17-2021

(03-17-2021, 12:33 AM)kruddler date Wrote:Never said they are not being done. Just saying in the scheme of things, if we delay the rollout (for those who want too) then nobody gets hurt. The virus is basically dead in the country currently. We are afforded somewhat of a luxury in dealing with this in terms of time compared to other countries......lets use some of it.
You can't pose the question and deny making the inference, it's inherent in the question. Whether that is specifically targeted at me to answer as part of this debate, or a rhetorical question posed for the benefit of other readers is irrelevant. Really, posing the checking, double checking and triple checking question just comes across as tricky and evasive, you imply it is not already happening as part of the act of making the statement, that takes us back to Sir Karl Popper.

The COVID-19 virus is dead in the country, except in sewerage facilities pretty much everywhere rural or urban!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - kruddler - 03-17-2021

(03-17-2021, 12:37 AM)LP link Wrote:You can't pose the question...
What question are you referring too exactly?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 03-17-2021

(03-17-2021, 12:41 AM)kruddler date Wrote:What question are you referring too exactly?
 See above, I'm on my phone so I usually post a bit before it gets too long to retype if I'm interrupted. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - PaulP - 03-17-2021

I'd be curious to know where the tipping point lies. Is there a magic number at which point suspending the AZ vaccine is justifiable ? If there was one death per country after taking the vaccine, would that justify suspension ? What about 3 blood clot incidents per country ? Would that justify suspension ? Unless the only level of risk you are prepared to tolerate is zero, there must be a tipping point that starts to spook people, and I'm wondering why the numbers currently in circulation would cause that, because statistically they seem very small.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - kruddler - 03-17-2021

(03-17-2021, 12:37 AM)LP link Wrote:You can't pose the question and deny making the inference, it's inherent in the question. Whether that is specifically targeted at me to answer as part of this debate, or a rhetorical question posed for the benefit of other readers is irrelevant. Really, posing the checking, double checking and triple checking question just comes across as tricky and evasive, you imply it is not already happening as part of the act of making the statement, that takes us back to Sir Karl Popper.

The COVID-19 virus is dead in the country, except in sewerage facilities pretty much everywhere rural or urban!
I don't imply that it is not already happening, (again with the black and white) i imply that it is not yet finished....or if it then it was not done thoroughly enough to begin with.

Since other countries have started getting cold feet, which is what in the last week or 2....and those numbers are growing....you believe that we have canvassed each of those countries, got their reasons for doing so, done our own research off the back of that and come to the conclusion that everything is still fine and dandy?
You have much more faith in our government than i do.



Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 03-17-2021

(03-17-2021, 12:45 AM)PaulP date Wrote:I'd be curious to know where the tipping point lies. Is there a magic number at which point suspending the AZ vaccine is justifiable ? If there was one death per country after taking the vaccine, would that justify suspension ? What about 3 blood clot incidents per country ? Would that justify suspension ? Unless the only level of risk you are prepared to tolerate is zero, there must be a tipping point that starts to spook people, and I'm wondering why the numbers currently in circulation would cause that, because statistically they seem very small.
I think the critical point [member=64]PaulP[/member]‍ is that the deaths have to be over and above the normal level for such incidents, and the scientists are telling us they aren't.

I note some of the countries that had paused have now announced the intention to resume overnight after the EU peaks body stated there was no valid reason to suspend. The dissenters can't defeat the stats with opinion, and if they continue to dissent the liability from the consequences of leaving people unvaccinated are huge!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - kruddler - 03-17-2021

(03-17-2021, 12:45 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I'd be curious to know where the tipping point lies. Is there a magic number at which point suspending the AZ vaccine is justifiable ? If there was one death per country after taking the vaccine, would that justify suspension ? What about 3 blood clot incidents per country ? Would that justify suspension ? Unless the only level of risk you are prepared to tolerate is zero, there must be a tipping point that starts to spook people, and I'm wondering why the numbers currently in circulation would cause that, because statistically they seem very small.

Exactly.....so why is it happening?
Dig deeper and you will find one of 2 things.
1. Countries are jumping at shadows and those numbers are well within the acceptable ranges of these things.
2. There is another problem that is actually behind the suspensions.

My contention is there is no harm in doing our own research into what these other countries are seeing.


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 03-17-2021

(03-17-2021, 12:49 AM)kruddler date Wrote:Since other countries have started getting cold feet, which is what in the last week or 2....
Some countries are now announcing the intention to resume overnight, after the EU peak body told them the suspension was unfounded.

I can't believe that intention to resume has happened so quickly by the way.

That tells you the initial suspension process was dubious if not corrupt, right from the start!

We will know in two or three days, but that flip time frame isn't coming from a scientific investigation result, it's either bureaucratic or political.