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+--- Thread: General Discussions (/thread-4803.html)
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Re: General Discussions - kruddler - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 10:44 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:There is such a thing as sustainable logging. So long as each oak cut down is replaced with a new one (say 2 for good measure) then what's the issue?
I don't disagree with you, but playing devils advocate.
Thats like knocking down an old house in the inner suburbs and replacing them with 2 townhouses.
Its not quite the same.
Re: General Discussions - LP - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 10:44 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:There is such a thing as sustainable logging. So long as each oak cut down is replaced with a new one (say 2 for good measure) then what's the issue?Why not source plantation oak, it already exists but it's foreign but it's British plantations, are the French prejudice against British Oak?
Re: General Discussions - cookie2 - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 10:47 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I don't disagree with you, but playing devils advocate.
Thats like knocking down an old house in the inner suburbs and replacing them with 2 townhouses.
Its not quite the same.
Gee, I hope they don't call in A.V. Jennings to knock down Notre Dame and put up a couple of prefabbed hot gospelling halls!! :o
Re: General Discussions - Thryleon - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 10:47 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I don't disagree with you, but playing devils advocate.
Thats like knocking down an old house in the inner suburbs and replacing them with 2 townhouses.
Its not quite the same.
Not quite, the oak tree only has a life of 100 to 300 years if they cut closer to the 250 year mark then effectively this is sustainable logging in practice.
Beats the last reason they cut them down which was for the grandeur of the French fleet.
Re: General Discussions - LP - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 10:53 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Not quite, the oak tree only has a life of 100 to 300 years if they cut closer to the 250 year mark then effectively this is sustainable logging in practice.They can harvest them from somewhere they aren't native, from somewhere they were deliberately imported to preserve a supply of timber for ship building.
Beats the last reason they cut them down which was for the grandeur of the French fleet.
They're not native to Melbourne, and they are cutting down 100 year old trees left right and centre to kill off a foreign beetle. FFS, to Melbourne Greenies Oaks are a pest species, they wanted them cut down last year to preserve a concrete carbon reducing bike path from root damage!
Re: General Discussions - cookie2 - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 10:50 AM)LP link Wrote:Why not source plantation oak, it already exists but it's foreign but it's British plantations, are the French prejudice against British Oak?
Tudor monarchs had most of the oak forests of southern England felled to build their warships. Notre Dame would be a somewhat nobler cause.
Re: General Discussions - Thryleon - 03-08-2021
If those up in arms read the last two paragraphs of this article I think they might change their tune.
We have people who own over 600 acres of French forests lining up to donate and are happy to be associated.
Considering we are talking about 1000 trees of a very specific size, I think they'll happily have this covered.
Re: General Discussions - LP - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 10:55 AM)cookie2 date Wrote:Tudor monarchs had most of the oak forests of southern England felled to build their warships. Notre Dame would be a somewhat nobler cause.Britain felled a fair chunk of Australia's forests as well back in the day, Vic Ash was prized for ship building and Britain needed timber! A lot of other local timbers were just turned into charcoal and shipped back.
Re: General Discussions - DJC - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 06:23 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Partly personal opinion about materials and architecture, and partly about cutting down 1000 trees that are hundreds of years old.
They are plantation trees that were intended to be harvested Paul. I don’t really see a problem, provided their loss is offset by more plantings.
Re: General Discussions - PaulP - 03-09-2021
The information that is publicly available is not thorough, so it's hard to be definitive. But the best I can determine is as follows :
1. The trees are coming from old growth forests. The number of such forests is significantly less now than when the Cathedral was built, and together with obvious knowledge about climate change and the benefits of such forests, the French should be looking elsewhere.
2. Everything that needs to be achieved can be achieved by using materials that don't come from old growth forests. All the structural integrity, all the beauty, all the fireproofing, all the intricacy can be achieved by other means.
3. There's a lot more that goes on in forests other than trees. They are full blown ecosystems in every sense of the word.
4. There is no logic in the sustainable logging argument. We could also argue that the world is overcrowded, so therefore we should knock off all those over 80, because they'll be dead soon anyway. Sustainable sapien management.
5. This is simply a vote buying exercise by Emmanuel Macarone - he doesn't want to be seen as the cheapskate who shortchanged a national treasure.
6. There is a line of thinking from William Morris, through John Ruskin, Carlo Scarpa and others, that openly frowns upon slavish imitation / reconstruction of heritage items. From the manifesto of the SPAB (Society for the Preservation of Ancient Buildings), written in 1877 by Morris, Philip Webb and others, right through to own own Burra Charter, the very conditions of the time give materials and the working and usage of those materials a unique flavour that cannot be convincingly replicated later. Those of us who remember the faux convict bricks from the 80's will know exactly what I mean - they look empty and humbug because that's exactly what they are. We build for our time, with our knowledge, our materials, our skills and our circumstances.
At least that's how I see it.