+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Princes Park (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Robert Heatley Stand (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-14.html)
+--- Thread: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide (/thread-3226.html)
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - JonHenry - 04-25-2017
(04-25-2017, 12:39 AM)PaulP link Wrote:You've been steadfast in your position on these two, and you are, like all of us, welcome to your opinion. If you believe that we are now on the right track, and that we have the right people in place making the right decisions, how will you feel if these two are still on our list in 2019, 2020 ?
I think we will have made a mistake, and it will affect our development as the kids will have role models that are happy to go through the motions
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - kruddler - 04-25-2017
(04-25-2017, 12:23 AM)PaulP link Wrote:What is it that you've said ? That they should be traded if a beneficial deal comes along ? If so, I agree 100%.
That, amongst others things.
http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=3416.new#new
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - PaulP - 04-25-2017
(04-25-2017, 12:51 AM)JonHenry link Wrote:I think we will have made a mistake, and it will affect our development as the kids will have role models that are happy to go through the motions
Well you may get your wish, or at least half of it.
To the best of my knowledge, Murph's current contract expires at the end of season 2018, by which time he'll be 31. I can't see him getting another long term contract, for 3 reasons :
1. reset
2. age
3. injuries
So my guess is he will either retire, or be offered a standard "golden oldies" contract i.e 1 year plus option, low wage, no guarantee of playing every game etc. By this time, a succession plan would hopefully be in place and he may have already relinquished the captaincy.
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - PaulP - 04-25-2017
(04-25-2017, 01:11 AM)kruddler link Wrote:That, amongst others things.
http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=3416.new#new
That link takes me straight to a quote from cimm regarding Casboult.
EDIT : don't worry - I've sorted it.
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - IvanAwfulbigone - 04-25-2017
(04-25-2017, 12:34 AM)JonHenry link Wrote:I am a hater.
When we invest THE best draft pick on a guy that says 8 years later he has not really put the most he has into his career then yes I hate.
He performs exactly as he says, like he is just happy to be an AFL footballer.
I do not believe that is the type of player you want mentoring your elite talent.
If you believe the young guys don't hear and see that lack of 100% commitment then there is something wrong.
Gibbs and Murphy have had a huge opportunity to take the club forward but it simply hasn't happened.
I believe they both had terrible role models at Carlton and their careers have suffered accordingly.
Let's move em on at years end and start with a new group
Amen brother, well said.
The whole internet "haters" concept is tricky when it comes to topics one is passionate about. I can truly say when the team runs out at the beginning of every match that I LOVE and admire every player for choosing to, and having the ability to play for my beloved Blues - something I was never talented enough to do. Don't think I've ever hated a player (except Franchina
). I admit to developing a strong dislike for Fevola yet I would still turn up week after week and "oooh" and "ahhh" along with the rest of us.I think Murphy has had an incredibly unlucky run. When you read his career progression on Wiki it becomes apparent how, every time he was hitting his straps, he'd suffer a major injury.
I also think the game has changed markedly since he was recruited - and I think this points to a major flaw with Carlton's recruiting strategy. There are smaller players going around (e.g. Dahlhaus, Puopolo) but they're quicker by hand and/or demon tacklers and/or strong overhead. We seem not to have taken into consideration how quickly the game can change and blindly choose the seemingly 'best pedigreed' player on paper. Gibbs is a prime example of this viz a viz the Kernahan connection. While Hawthorn was picking up gangly colts with raking left feet or cherry picking dour, miserly defenders with specific roles in mind, we were content to take the easy option of taking the number 1 junior player as judged by so-called 'experts' :
It was a lazy strategy - one which gave the recruiters an easy 'out'. Remember that ad - "no-one ever got fired for choosing IBM".To say Gibbs and Murphy have been consistently among our best players for 10 years is really highlighting the fact that double nothing is still nothing.
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - Blue Moon - 04-25-2017
I saw a picture of Dixon consoling Weitering at the end of the match. This picture summerised the match for me, Carlton had young men still developing and Port had grown men fully developed. We lost two mature bodied players in Kreuzer and Thomas before the match and then proceeded to have two more injured during the game. While very disappointed by the game on Friday night, I was more happy after watching the Northern Blues on saturday afternoon because I could see what the club is trying to do.
Carlton's game is based on having pressure around the contest, at the moment because our players aren't physically developed enough, too many players are drawn to the contest, and when we don't win the contest, we are then exposed out the back. This happened against Gold Coast and Port Adelaide.
Against Essendon, we won the contest because Essendon players didn't want to commit. They were pretty pathetic. The ball when it went into our defence, came in slowly and we were able to set up and repel. Our lack of forward development meant we didn't slaughter them by 20 goals like we should have.
What I take out is that our best player this season has been Plowman. He is one year further down his development than the others. So in another 12 months, Silvagni, Curnow, Weitering, Cunningham and Mckay are all going to be good players, along with Picket and Marchbank, in two years time, Polson, SPS, Macreadie, Fisher, williamson and Kerr will also be good players. Along with Cripps, Docherty, Plowman & Byrne. This gives us a base of 17 good young players to build the team around for the next 10.
This is what I got out of last weekends games.
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - PaulP - 04-25-2017
Whilst it's in the realm of a hypothetical, I imagine if you put Gibbs and Murph in the recent Hawks / Cats teams, you would see two different players. Conversely, put Hodge, Danger etc. in our team, then you would also see 2 different players.
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - IvanAwfulbigone - 04-25-2017
(04-25-2017, 01:51 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Whilst it's in the realm of a hypothetical, I imagine if you put Gibbs and Murph in the recent Hawks / Cats teams, you would see two different players. Conversely, put Hodge, Danger etc. in our team, then you would also see 2 different players.
It's the second hypothetical which begs further analysis. Why do you think that may be the case? I'm of the opinion that the Mitchells (sorry, can't write about Hodge - he disgusts me), Dangerfields, Abletts, etc. of this world remain consistently committed to excellence no matter who they play for. Slight change to style/gameplan, perhaps?
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - PaulP - 04-25-2017
(04-25-2017, 02:21 AM)IvanAwfulbigone link Wrote:It's the second hypothetical which begs further analysis. Why do you think that may be the case? I'm of the opinion that the Mitchells (sorry, can't write about Hodge - he disgusts me), Dangerfields, Abletts, etc. of this world remain consistently committed to excellence no matter who they play for. Slight change to style/gameplan, perhaps?
Being committed to excellence is one thing. Playing consistent, high quality football is another, and is easier when you're surrounded by quality. Dangerfield, Hodge, Mitchell have always played in very good clubs, good players, good culture etc. When good players leave our club to go somewhere better, they prosper (2E, Betts, maybe even Laidler and Waite, although the latter two might be stretching the friendship a little).
Nathan Jones from Melbourne is a player I really like and have a lot of time for - do you think he would've fared better at the Hawks/cats etc ? Because I do. Until recently he's been surrounded by muck. He has never been AA (although he deserves to iMO), and he has less Brownlow votes than either Gibbs or Murph.
Re: 2017 Round 5: Post Game Prognostications: Carlton vs Port Adelaide - LP - 04-25-2017
(04-25-2017, 01:50 AM)Blue Moon link Wrote:I saw a picture of Dixon consoling Weitering at the end of the match.
You mean recruit whispering, come on over to us, we can take away your pain!
