(02-22-2021, 05:01 AM)DJC date Wrote:The back of the packet?

(02-22-2021, 12:42 AM)LP link Wrote:Statistically, you probably find that eating 2,000,000 Smarties is likely to kill you by a range of means anyway, choking, diabetes, obesity, vitamin deficiency!

(02-22-2021, 12:21 AM)LP link Wrote:Not at all, firstly the idea that a vaccine is solely responsible for a demise is laughable, and secondly the numbers are drastically different.

Up until today, 205,000,000 COVID vaccinations have been issued, yet the sensationalist media and anti-vaxxers highlight a handful of correlated incidents that could be severe reactions.

"Letting it Rip" would be the equivalent of putting the mutating virus on steroids and expecting a good result. It's a complete misunderstanding of how a virus evolves in relation to how immunity develops. The sort of immunity the anti-vaxxers claim will come from a release requires global deaths to be in the 8 and 9 digit category, 10 or 100 times more than now!
All the current vaccines are approved for emergency use after Stage III trials testing vaccine on 10,000 to 40,000 individuals in double blind, which bypasses Stage IV where perhaps it is required to specifically test vaccine on 100,000 or more individuals are required. But by accelerating the roll-out of emergency use Stage IV is effectively already being conducted in many regions. It's wrong to consider people as guinea pigs when vaccinated in Feb 2021, because some regions have been vaccinating since Dec 2020, it's just that each region has sovereignty over it's own approval process. But globally due to the very high numbers of people already vaccinated the trial is effectively done.

Testing 10,000,000 over 3 months is functionally the same as testing 2,000,000 over a year or 1,000,000 over two years with a good safe margin. Humans struggle with the math because it doesn't fit with personal experience. These are numbers a regular deliberate trial can only dream of!

Keep in mind the anti-vaxxers and media are referring to incidents that happened within minutes or hours of being vaccinated. How many hours have passed for those individuals already vaccinated, I don't know how to do that calculation but it will be billions of hours!

Some vaccines have been given permission to Challenge test, which makes this Stage III and IV process effectively redundant, but is not consider as scientifically rigorous as there is no double blind trial.

Despite the rare events that relate to specifics, this vaccine is already statistically safer than driving, flying, eating nuts, smoking, drinking alcohol, sunbaking, climbing a ladder, taking a shower, having a bath. I realise this doesn't fit with some people's experience, but you can't debate the math, it just is!

You might die, I might die, coincidentally or just because of the injection, or because of anaphylactic shock, but you are more likely to die trying a new food or restaurant this week!

(02-22-2021, 07:03 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:...
Hence what I stated previously.  You are confirming your bias by subscribing to the answer of vaccines dont do any harm.  I don't think there has been anyone on here who has demonstrated blind faith and a 100% belief that all vaccines are 'safe.' All vaccines have had issues with a small % of the community. They can, and sometimes they do.  Thats not to mean we shouldnt administer it, it just means we need to be cautious about what we are doing, why we are doing it, and what the potential outcomes are.  I dont blame anyone for not wanting it - depends why, and I dont blame anyone who thinks they should get it, because they ultimately are guided by whats good for them.

(02-22-2021, 08:19 AM)Baggers link Wrote:Now, 3 Leos, you were being a bit of a smarty pants   -- come on, admit it  -- when you asked a few posts back, in my response to a post on a more positive vaccine outlook, that if a relative of mine was harmed or died from the vaccine how would I feel? Now, you cheeky fella, I of course would be devastated and grief struck, BUT, it would NOT result in me decrying the vaccine. I would understand that the greater community good is being aided by the vaccine.

As with most medical discoveries I am confident that all Covid vaccines will continue to undergo testing and refining to improve efficacy and minimise adverse reaction potential. This is a global emergency and we are doing the best we can in the circumstances.

As I mentioned way back when I was having my vaccines on joining the RAN, most of us felt crook but recovered, about 1%, or less, of the guys had a very adverse reaction - but I, and millions of others from that era, have not had TB, Yellow Fever etc. I, and millions of others, have not had measles, polio... and so on. Some people cannot handle one of the great inventions of the 20th century, penicillin, and can get very ill, even die... but we don't discontinue penicillin because of that - we researched and found other means to help those folks (as a note of interest - indigenous folks through the ages used variations of mould /herbs etc. to treat illnesses with some success!).

The human species is damn resilient, and smart... and yet, can also be incredibly fearful and jump to, sometimes, bizarre conclusions. I don't think anyone on here, when expressing a favourable attitude to vaccines, is talking in absolutes. In a 100 years time people will look back on how we handled the pandemic and probably summize that we did the best we could with what we knew.

(02-22-2021, 05:09 AM)LP link Wrote:I wish I'd thought of that! ;D

[member=324]DJC[/member] An aside, did you notice the TGA is coming down hard on those profiteering from "Trumps COVID solutions", Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine. The crooks are all getting cease and desist orders issued this week, I'm a bit disappointed it took this long, but it's a step in the right direction.

Quote:As I have said on many occasions, the evidence for benefit of hydroxychloroquine used early in high-risk outpatients is extremely strong, and the evidence against harm is also equally strong. This body of evidence dramatically outweighs the
risk/benefit evidence for remdesivir, monoclonal antibodies or the difficult to use bamlanivimab that the FDA has approved for emergency use authorizations while denying the emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine. This egregious double standard for hydroxychloroquine needs to be overturned immediately and its emergency use authorization application approved. This is how we will get on the road to early outpatient treatment and the major curtailment of mortality.

(02-22-2021, 09:46 AM)capcom link Wrote:I've read enough and seen enough to take the jab and not even think twice about it.

Get on with it.