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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda (/thread-6030.html)
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - ElwoodBlues1 - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 12:49 AM)Lods link Wrote:It's a bit of a Lyon 'love-in' at the moment.Im not sure Lyon was the full problem it was more the response from our coaching box or lack of and as GTC suggested Voss just seemed to be reacting how Lyon wanted when he made moves and spent the afternoon reacting rather than being proactive.
There is no doubt he is a great tactical and game day coach.
It's silly to dispute otherwise.
In fact his time away has probably enabled him to hone those skills.
He was pretty impressive in some of the analysis he used to do on 'Footy Classified'.
Can he maintain and keep the love flowing over the season is the question.
It's funny...everyone wants him now but when we had a poll on the new coach after Teague, 55 people voted and only 3 voted for Lyon.
We seem to lack forward planning or our scouting is poor....Collingwood just snuck home the previous week with the Daicos kids getting ridiculous stats and heavily losing the stat count doesnt worry Lyon as that means his game plan is working and you are being sucked into his vortex where play just goes back and forwards in an arc until its turned over by one of your poor kicking players.
We had way more disposals and they had four more inside 50's........ WTF were we doing with all that ball?......having kick to kick in the middle and across half back? That is a coaching fail.....its not a talent issue, either the players are stupid and cant follow directions or the directions are wrong.
Is Lyon a genius..No..... Are we dumb...Yes
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - Micky0 - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 03:57 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:We had way more disposals and they had four more inside 50's........ WTF were we doing with all that ball?......having kick to kick in the middle and across half back? That is a coaching fail.....its not a talent issue, either the players are stupid and cant follow directions or the directions are wrong.^ this
Is Lyon a genius..No..... Are we dumb...Yes
The second half was diabolical to watch - back slow sideways back again then a switch then turnover, bang, saints goal.
It almost looked like the players were stuck in a mindset and couldn’t think for themselves to change it up. Completely frustrating crap to watch.
Also as someone said above, Lyon pulled out because he wanted the job handed to him. Remember there was some sort of commentary coming out about some allegations made against him whilst at Freo. Then he pulled out and didn’t want to interview to a panel for the job. So you think we should’ve just handed it to him rather than go thru a process. Voss had also turned our guys around.
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - Lods - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 03:57 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Im not sure Lyon was the full problem it was more the response from our coaching box or lack of and as GTC suggested Voss just seemed to be reacting how Lyon wanted when he made moves and spent the afternoon reacting rather than being proactive.
We seem to lack forward planning or our scouting is poor....Collingwood just snuck home the previous week with the Daicos kids getting ridiculous stats and heavily losing the stat count doesnt worry Lyon as that means his game plan is working and you are being sucked into his vortex where play just goes back and forwards in an arc until its turned over by one of your poor kicking players.
We had way more disposals and they had four more inside 50's........ WTF were we doing with all that ball?......having kick to kick in the middle and across half back? That is a coaching fail.....its not a talent issue, either the players are stupid and cant follow directions or the directions are wrong.
Is Lyon a genius..No..... Are we dumb...Yes
I actually thought we came prepared. The plan seemed sound given we were without Saad and Docherty. It was always going to be on the mids and forwards and the lack of connection between those two groups was the main problem. Part of the issue is we have two stand-out forwards aided by some rather mediocre performing assistants.
Our small forwards are ineffective and our mids aren't impacting the scoreboard.
We came with the right attitude but were let down to often by poor decisions and disposal. The criticism in my eyes was more about our ability to react and nullify once the midfield advantage was lost after half-time, and yes I guess that is on Voss. Yep, the cross ground kicking is often frustrating. It's often used when there is really no advantage to it.
Voss apparently had a few personal issues during the lead-up to the game which kept him a way from the club for a day or two. It can't be used as an excuse but it may have had some effect on his focus.
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - Lods - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 04:08 AM)Micky0 link Wrote:Also as someone said above, Lyon pulled out because he wanted the job handed to him. Remember there was some sort of commentary coming out about some allegations made against him whilst at Freo. Then he pulled out and didn’t want to interview to a panel for the job. So you think we should’ve just handed it to him rather than go thru a process. Voss had also turned our guys around.
It's one of the reasons we probably need to wait a bit.
If we compare Voss's initial games at Carlton to Ross's at St Kilda we were probably filled with the same enthusiasm this time last year.
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - Thryleon - 04-25-2023
I've been a Carlton supporter my whole life and no matter what happens when Carlton play against St. Kilda we just have no idea how to beat them.
It's been that way as long as I can remember, and I wasn't expecting it to change now. Imagine wanting to slit your wrists because we lost to the form side of the competition?
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - rocky - 04-25-2023
(04-24-2023, 11:35 PM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Lyon won the coaching duel when he put Sinclair into the middle, that changed the game. I seem to remember Sinclair doing a number on us several times.Yep, in a nutshell. Sinclair has spanked us many times in the past.
Not entirely sure but I think Ed C had the job on Sinclair when he was at half-back? Kept him relatively quiet.
Then Ross moved him into the middle, but Voss decided Ed wasn't the option? That there is one big mistake. I don't use the "out-coached" term much but in this instance it's warranted.
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - shawny - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 05:35 AM)rocky link Wrote:Yep, in a nutshell. Sinclair has spanked us many times in the past.
Not entirely sure but I think Ed C had the job on Sinclair when he was at half-back? Kept him relatively quiet.
Then Ross moved him into the middle, but Voss decided Ed wasn't the option? That there is one big mistake. I don't use the "out-coached" term much but in this instance it's warranted.
Agree that our coach appears to not like or be capable of adjusting mid game. However in his defence our gameplan was sound and we were way on top in general play in the first half but just don’t finish off our play and make poor decisions entering 50. We should have had a clear buffer at half time but as I said poor execution cost us again.
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - laj - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 04:48 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:I've been a Carlton supporter my whole life and no matter what happens when Carlton play against St. Kilda we just have no idea how to beat them.
It's been that way as long as I can remember, and I wasn't expecting it to change now. Imagine wanting to slit your wrists because we lost to the form side of the competition?
Yes. It was actually only 15 min that beat us, generally due to our crap. Without that we may have been on top of the ladder. On the bright side we have alot more improvement in us than St.Kilda. Hopefully it comes to fruition, the hard part.
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - laj - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 02:28 AM)Macca37 link Wrote:I don't understand the fixation with statistics. If they are an accurate reflection of the game then we should have won.
Football statistics don't show whether a disposal by hand or foot was effective or whether it caused a turnover resulting in a goal; whether the ball was kicked sideways or backwards to no effect; whether a ruck tap was to our advantage etc, etc.
Until there is ever a meaningful breakdown of the statistics I regard them as being covered by the saying "lies, damn lies and statistics".
Stats work better when they are combined with other stats.
Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda - bratblue - 04-25-2023
(04-25-2023, 02:00 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Lyon's coaching record is a mixed bag. Some terrific seasons, some ordinary ones. 2016,17,18 and 19 were ordinary by any measure. 16th, 14th, 14th, 13th respectively. 4 seasons in a row of lowly finishes has to tarnish the reputation somewhat IMO.
Stats can be read either way Paul.......