(10-09-2020, 09:28 PM)cookie2 link Wrote:@ Lods
Interesting post Lods. So most people are in favour of law and order but different groups of different political  hues can favour different laws and different orders, often to support their own political ends and agendas and sometimes drifting into the draconian. Surprise, surprise.

(10-09-2020, 10:51 PM)Baggers link Wrote:....................................................And then there's the fact that religion is still so strong in the US, with the Old Testament punishments seemingly favoured by the conservatives, especially the hard right, whereas your politically moderate or left Christian seems more in favour of a New Testament understanding of justice.
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(10-09-2020, 10:20 PM)Lods link Wrote:One of the strange things you see in Trump discussions is this...
Democrats and their supporters attack (rightly in most cases) Trump for his disparaging remarks about opponents, his venom, and his dismissive put downs.
How do many respond?
They attack him with venom and personal disparaging remarks about his hair, skin colour, mental inadequacies and family.
You play on Trump's home ground and you give him an advantage.
While those things play well for the committed 'never Trumpers' they don't go over as well for the moderate and uncommitted voter.
On the far extreme they fuel the 'hate' fires and widen the divide.

(10-10-2020, 03:09 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Whilst that's generally true, you will find, in amongst a whole lot of nonsense about God being a vindictive tribal deity, the Books of Jonah, Malachi, Amos and Hosea. These are among a group of Old Testament prophets known as the Minor Prophets, and in their work you will find the belief that "Godliness" can be experienced through unconditional love, forgiveness, justice, the absence of prejudice, and a universal, boundless force that connects all things at all times.

(10-10-2020, 04:49 AM)Mav link Wrote:"Democrats and their supporters" do not include "Never Trumpers". The latter is the term for erstwhile Republicans who consider Trump unfit for office. Among them are George Conway, Rick Wilson & Anthony Scaramucci, the 1st 2 of whom founded the Lincoln Project whose main weapon has been producing a series of ads for TV & social media mocking Trump. They aren't Democrats nor are they supporters of the Democrats: they have merely embraced the obvious that the only way to get rid of Trump now is for Biden to be elected. Biden has no control over them and in fact their campaign runs counter to the way Biden wants to attack Trump.

The psychologists and psychiatrists who believe Trump is mentally unfit to be President including Dr Bandy Lee and Mary Trump (the niece of Donald Trump) are also not Democrats or their supporters. There's a common thread, though, in their views and the Lincoln Project's attacks on Trump. The psychological picture of Trump being a malignant narcissist and sociopath who has created a cult of blindly loyal followers is why the Lincoln Project believes mockery of Trump is the best weapon to use against Trump. Trump can't stand being diminished and can't resist the temptation to attack the Lincoln Project every time they put out an ad. His tweets and attempts to browbeat various platforms to pull those ads only serve to make them go viral.  There's nothing more lethal to a narcissist's self-esteem than ridicule and mockery and a would-be strongman fears that it will undermine his followers' devotion to him. The founders of the Lincoln Project believe they know the Republican voters' minds better than the Democrats do and are more able to hive off Trump's supporters. Who knows if they're right on this.

Then we have those who are opposed to Trump given his racism and white supremacy. I hope you don't think labelling him in this way is an example of "venom" as they are true descriptions and aren't mere personal attacks. He has earned those decriptors and they are a common thread through his Presidency. Calling him a liar is also just the plain truth. The fact checkers have compiled lists of his lies that now number in the tens of thousands. He doesn't care about telling the truth: his assertions are just "positions" which can and do change on a whim. His administration even has sought to regularise this under the label of "alternative facts".

The only descriptor that may be problematic is "fascist", but if the shoe fits ... . We have Trump refusing to accept the results of the election unless he's reelected, calling on the Proud Boys to stand down and stand by, trying to suppress the vote, and one of his henchmen, Senator Mike Lee, tweeting “Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prospefity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.” Isn't fascism about installing a right-wing government in a 1 party state? Calling him a fascist is much more accurate than Trump's labelling of Democrats as communists. 

As for his family, you know that he has many of them working in the White House & his reelection campaign? Ivanka & Jared Kushner are valid political targets and Don Jr & Eric are political flamethrowers and beneficiaries of Trump's self-dealing with his business who can't hide behind the "don't attack the kids" shield. Does anyone much attack Barron Trump, Tiffany Trump or even Melania? I don't think so (and certainly the racist vitriol directed at Michelle Obama when she was 1st Lady dwarfed any that does occur).

Personally, I reckon the Lincoln Project is right. Don't allow Trump to blow past every norm and then confine yourself to a tepid response as if you're at a tea party with society matrons.  If he does something outrageous, call him out for it over a loudspeaker. Thankfully, the press has now grown out of the ridiculous "both sides are bad" routine. Now instead of saying Trump has made a racially-tinged comment, they label it racist. And Jamelle Hill can now say Trump's a white supremacist without being met with righteous indignation. 

(10-10-2020, 05:53 AM)Baggers link Wrote:Absolutely, but sadly, as you point out they are regarded as the Minor Prophets and conveniently? forgotten when vengeance is sought and prejudice upheld - uniquely human expressions. Many of the hard right, Conservative Christians (WTF!) would rather have died that afforded the Obamas, when running the country, such Christian love... or any Democrat for that matter.