+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Social Club (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: Blah-Blah Bar (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-23.html)
+--- Thread: General Discussions (/thread-4803.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
Re: General Discussions - Gointocarlton - 10-22-2024
When you have educated people who can hold a conversation and debate respectfully in proper settings, great things can be achieved. Thorpe is incapable of anything even remotely close to the above and as long as she is in the public eye so called "fighting for her people", she will continue to do nothing but irreparable damage to indigenous culture in this country. Might be completely off here but thats how I see it.
Re: General Discussions - dodge - 10-22-2024
Questions need to be raised of ALL parliamentarians:
a) How do/did you represent those in your electorate - those that did and didn't vote for you
b) How did you contribute positively to parliament
c) If you didn't vote for some legislation, what contribution did you make as either an outlined alternative position or suggested amendments to the proposed legislation to best represent your electorate
Impacts of legislation on society can be very complex - strict ideology with no flexibility has no place.
Back to Lydia:
- How have you represented those that voted for you?
- How have you positively contributed to parliament?
- How have you suggested improvements to proposed legislation?
- Are you just an activist that receives $220k per year on the taxpayer.
Re: General Discussions - kruddler - 10-22-2024
(10-22-2024, 02:02 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:When you have educated people who can hold a conversation and debate respectfully in proper settings, great things can be achieved.
Prove it.
Has never happened in parliament thus far. It is the pipe dream though.
Unfortunately people argue like angry kindergartners all emotion and self interest.
Re: General Discussions - PaulP - 10-22-2024
Historically, power asymmetries have never been corrected voluntarily. There isn't one example that I can recall where those at the top cede power over a hot cocoa and marshmallows. Historically, their hand has always been forced. Lidia Thorpe is rough around the edges and doesn't mind crude tactics (or maybe doesn't know any better), but she does have a point. It's taken 200 years for First Nations voices to be even heard, and there's still plenty to do. Martin Luther King was correct when he said the arc of the moral universe is long.
Re: General Discussions - Thryleon - 10-22-2024
No one in parliament is interested in changing the status quo remarkably. They are only interested in feeding their own snout and making sure the trough they feed at is protected.
That's fine, so long as we have no illusions we won't be dissapointed. They'll change bits and pieces along the way, but it has to suit. As we see another onslaught of minority immigration it suits Australia the nation to tie itself to indigenous roots as a matter of national security. Also fine unless you don't like that. Pretty hard to topple the nation or invade it though. You'll see tenuous links to being indigenous granted soon enough too. People will embrace it.
Re: General Discussions - Lods - 10-22-2024
(10-22-2024, 04:56 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Historically, power asymmetries have never been corrected voluntarily. There isn't one example that I can recall where those at the top cede power over a hot cocoa and marshmallows. Historically, their hand has always been forced. Lidia Thorpe is rough around the edges and doesn't mind crude tactics (or maybe doesn't know any better), but she does have a point. It's taken 200 years for First Nations voices to be even heard, and there's still plenty to do. Martin Luther King was correct when he said the arc of the moral universe is long.
This lack of a first nation's voice is really a bit of a myth.
First nations people have a strong voice. They don't always agree and are not necessarily always listened to especially by political folk. If you dont think they have a voice then you haven't been paying attention.Indigenous departments are part of State and Federal Govenments and contain many Indigenous people. We had Indigenous aides and teachers in my schools for the last 20 years of my teaching providing an Indigenous perspective.
The issues facing indigenous people are significant and complex. Is enough being done to address these real issues.? Certainly not!
And folks like Lidia Thorpe with her distractions are not helping the situation. She is divisive and alienates people. Of all the things she talked about yesterday none were solutions, just grievances and insults.
Re: General Discussions - PaulP - 10-22-2024
(10-22-2024, 06:32 AM)Lods link Wrote:This lack of a first nation's voice is really a bit of a myth.
First nations people have a strong voice. They don't always agree and are not necessarily always listened to especially by political folk. If you dont think they have a voice then you haven't been paying attention.Indigenous departments are part of State and Federal Govenments and contain many Indigenous people. We had Indigenous aides and teachers in my schools for the last 20 years of my teaching providing an Indigenous perspective.
The issues facing indigenous people are significant and complex. Is enough being done to address these real issues.? Certainly not!
And folks like Lidia Thorpe with her distractions are not helping the situation. She is divisive and alienates people. Of all the things she talked about yesterday none were solutions, just grievances and insults.
If the powers that be are not listening and not acting, or listening and not acting, then it proves my point that First Nations people are still lacking power.
With your last paragraph, Americans said exactly the same about MLK, i.e that his civil rights demonstrations etc. hurt Negroes more than they helped. I'm not in any way suggesting that Thorpe is on par with MLK, but the comparison hardly flatters our generation.
Re: General Discussions - Lods - 10-22-2024
(10-22-2024, 06:45 AM)PaulP link Wrote:[quote author=Lods link=msg=428783 date=1729578736]
This lack of a first nation's voice is really a bit of a myth.
First nations people have a strong voice. They don't always agree and are not necessarily always listened to especially by political folk. If you dont think they have a voice then you haven't been paying attention.Indigenous departments are part of State and Federal Govenments and contain many Indigenous people. We had Indigenous aides and teachers in my schools for the last 20 years of my teaching providing an Indigenous perspective.
The issues facing indigenous people are significant and complex. Is enough being done to address these real issues.? Certainly not!
And folks like Lidia Thorpe with her distractions are not helping the situation. She is divisive and alienates people. Of all the things she talked about yesterday none were solutions, just grievances and insults.
If the powers that be are not listening and not acting, or listening and not acting, then it proves my point that First Nations people are still lacking power.
With your last paragraph, Americans said exactly the same about MLK, i.e that his civil rights demonstrations etc. hurt Negroes more than they helped. I'm not in any way suggesting that Thorpe is on par with MLK, but the comparison hardly flatters our generation.
[/quote]
Lidia Thorpes methods are the complete opposite of King's. Maybe she should take a leaf from that playbook.
(Oh...and King...well that's my generation)
Re: General Discussions - PaulP - 10-22-2024
(10-22-2024, 07:12 AM)Lods link Wrote:Lidia Thorpes methods are the complete opposite of King's. Maybe she should take a leaf from that playbook.
(Oh...and King...well that's my generation)
Perhaps my earlier post lacked clarity. Whether Thorpe's methods are same or different to MLK is not really the point. MLK was the most hated man in America when he died, and the consensus position among surveyed Americans is that he was divisive and his methods counterproductive to the Negro cause, which is where the comparison to Thorpe comes in, or Adam Goodes for that matter.
Re: General Discussions - Lods - 10-22-2024
(10-22-2024, 07:26 AM)PaulP link Wrote:[quote author=Lods link=msg=428795 date=1729581177]
Lidia Thorpes methods are the complete opposite of King's. Maybe she should take a leaf from that playbook.
(Oh...and King...well that's my generation)
Perhaps my earlier post lacked clarity. Whether Thorpe's methods are same or different to MLK is not really the point. MLK was the most hated man in America when he died, and the consensus position among surveyed Americans is that he was divisive and his methods counterproductive to the Negro cause, which is where the comparison to Thorpe comes in, or Adam Goodes for that matter.
[/quote]
Do you really think history will judge Lidia Thorpe as Australia's equivalent of MLK?
King was a leader of people. Thorpe seems to be only interested in her own profile.