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+--- Thread: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle (/thread-3849.html)
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - Shakin77 - 06-18-2018
(06-17-2018, 06:39 AM)Lods link Wrote:Might just be Gibbs
Eddie B and big Sam didn't have the same spells.
Could be Gibbs.
Could be they are playing without 7 of their top 10 B&F player from last season.
Or Gibbs
It's hard to tell.
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - laj - 06-18-2018
(06-17-2018, 11:23 PM)blue4life link Wrote:There was that, but he didn't get a fair crack at it anyway.
What strikes me is that we can seemingly take highly experienced, highly successful premiership coaches and turn them into hacks, yet here we are all these years later languishing on the bottom of the ladder after a new broom supposedly swept all of our error ridden past aside.
There's something very wrong at the CFC.
As for those defending Ratten, another abysmal coaching appointment in my view, they should ask themselves whether they would be so strident in their defence of him if he'd played his football at Richmond.
Abysmal? You're F joking. We had generally an ordinary side and we got to play finals within 2 years after being a basket case like we are now. Open your eyes and have a look at his record compared to every other coach since 2001. Would've been alot more interesting if he had SOS as his List Manager rather than that dud Wayne Hughes, given we were close to a PF one year. We turned other sinto hacks, he turned us around. Imagine a coach a Carlton recently having a better than 50% record, playing finals, and in the year he was sacked for Malthouse he still won 11 games in an injury hit year. We'd kill for that now. He did way better than Pagan and Malthouse, two "gun" coaches. while you talk about abysmal appointments I'll point to the scoreboard. I know who wins that one.
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - PaulP - 06-18-2018
(06-18-2018, 12:16 AM)malo link Wrote:Another hypothetical.....as I love going over completely useless scenarios from the past in my mind....helps stave off insanity....or maybe it's an indication of the onset of it. Anyway....
Would Hardwick still be coaching us if we'd appointed him around the time Ratts was extended ?
Ratts contract was extended at the end of 2011, and if we appointed Hardwick then, with the same results, my guess is he would be gone by now.
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - flyboy77 - 06-18-2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Carlton_Football_Club_coaches
24 Alex Jesaulenko 76 53 22 1 70.39 1978–1979, 1989–1990
25 Peter Jones 24 17 7 0 70.83 1980
26 David Parkin 355 219 134 2 61.97 1981–1985, 1991–2000
27 Robert Walls 84 55 29 0 65.48 1986–1989
28 Wayne Brittain 46 18 28 0 39.13 2001–2002
29 Denis Pagan 104 25 77 2 24.04 2003–2007
30 Brett Ratten 120 60 59 1 50.00 2007–2012
31 Mick Malthouse 54 20 33 1 37.04 2013–2015
32 John Barker 13 3 10 0 23.08 2015
33 Brendon Bolton 44 13 31 0 29.55 2016–
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - Shakin77 - 06-18-2018
Bring back Wallsy!!!
Interesting.
Last 5 coaches under 50% including to high profile coaches. Maybe Palmer is onto something.
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - PaulP - 06-18-2018
(06-18-2018, 01:26 AM)Shakin77 link Wrote:Bring back Wallsy!!!
Interesting.
Last 5 coaches under 50% including to high profile coaches. Maybe Palmer is onto something.
The game has past him by.
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - LP - 06-18-2018
The structure we now have is correct, the problem is implementation, both on and off field!
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - Thryleon - 06-18-2018
(06-17-2018, 01:09 PM)laj link Wrote:We had cream at the top but crap in the bottom half. The 2011 SF had 8.players off the rookie list. Other than Judd we had all those players were there under Pagan. Say what you want about Ratten he turned us from a basket case to finalist in 2 years.
We have become extremely emotive and reactive with our decision making. Ironically with Ratten had we reviewed our situation properly we might have simply moved forward with him rather than changing to Malthouse.
We have applied the same emotive decision making we used to sack Brittain, Appoint Pagan, Sack Pagan, Appoint Ratten, sack Ratten and then appoint Malthouse. The club appear to have finally learned their lesson, and have sacked Malthouse for good reason, and then appointed Bolton with the appropriate decision making lacking from our football club in it's history. Let's not go further back. Football has been a very different business since the millenium, and it took us 15 years to come to gripps with the decision making required to suit the current era. The problem is, we might be 15 years too late, and therefore still a bit behind the others today, but we can catch up quickly if we leave the footy team alone and start focussing on the rest of the place and what we need to get better at (simply running the place for a start).
(06-18-2018, 01:16 AM)laj link Wrote:Abysmal? You're F joking. We had generally an ordinary side and we got to play finals within 2 years after being a basket case like we are now. Open your eyes and have a look at his record compared to every other coach since 2001. Would've been alot more interesting if he had SOS as his List Manager rather than that dud Wayne Hughes, given we were close to a PF one year. We turned other sinto hacks, he turned us around. Imagine a coach a Carlton recently having a better than 50% record, playing finals, and in the year he was sacked for Malthouse he still won 11 games in an injury hit year. We'd kill for that now. He did way better than Pagan and Malthouse, two "gun" coaches. while you talk about abysmal appointments I'll point to the scoreboard. I know who wins that one.
Without reinventing the wheel and covering off the old territory of this one I think we are at the point, where the only tangible information we can draw from any of this period is that the decision making of the footy club is more broken.
I had this opinion once before. Its simply time to stop meddling in the football part of the football club, and start looking at the methodology behind running the place, which speaks for why we changed from Steven Trigg to Cain Liddle. I am most enthused that Liddle has not appeared to do much aside from make a simple statement about our club culture which was 110% on the money. We got ourselves into this situation and we will get ourselves out of it.
(06-18-2018, 01:34 AM)LP link Wrote:The structure we now have is correct, the problem is implementation, both on and off field!
Yep. An often quoted statement at my place of employment. We need to do better with the things we have, rather than look to add to them, or make changes and bring in more people. For some time, we have been adding people to our footy club, and then dragging them down to our level. We need to start doing the opposite and have people come in, and start bringing us up to their level.
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - blue4life - 06-18-2018
Cast your eye over Ratten's side of 2009 and you'll find 8 or 10 players who were either A grade or not far from it, do the same over this week's team and you'll struggle to find three.
That's the bottom line, it's a culmination of two decades of neglect and incompetence.
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Post Game Prattling-Carlton v Fremantle - Thryleon - 06-18-2018
(06-18-2018, 01:59 AM)blue4life link Wrote:Cast your eye over Ratten's side of 2009 and you'll find 8 or 10 players who were either A grade or not far from it, do the same over this week's team and you'll struggle to find three.
That's the bottom line, it's a culmination of two decades of neglect and incompetence.
That might be true, but it's hard to blame Ratten for that and we might say similar about the current mob playing footy for us in 9 years time.
The recruitment of players under his tenure, says more about us than it did about Ratten. The senior coach shouldnt be having as large an influence on list management as that because it becomes reactive.
There is a theme emerging that we need to spend a little more of our time doing critical analysis on. We need to stop looking at the figures involved, and start looking at how the decisions were/are made. To some degree individuals are part of that process, but on most levels of organisation people often do the best they can with the tools at their disposal.
We are looking at Bolton looking similarly befuddled as Ratten did back in 2012 and malthouse did in 2015. There endeth the comparison. Now we need to learn how to stop it from happening again and that's how you know we have progressed.