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+--- Thread: The strange case of George Santos (/thread-5929.html)
Re: The strange case of George Santos - madbluboy - 01-23-2023
(01-23-2023, 12:56 AM)Mav link Wrote:I can’t speak on Baggers’ behalf, but I believe it.
There used to be a time where politicians would be ashamed when they were caught out in lies and their parties would cut ties with them if those lies were big enough. But Trump showed you don’t even need to apologise for your lies: instead double down and boast about annoying those on the other side of politics.
Trump ended up pushing the stop the steal lie and made it a loyalty test. He ran Republicans who wouldn’t push the lie out of Congress. And he made it the centrepiece of his re-election campaign while refusing to reveal any policies other than saying he’d make America great again again. How could you not draw a line from Trump to Santos?
Just pick your team and ignore their lies.
Re: The strange case of George Santos - DJC - 01-23-2023
(01-22-2023, 11:54 PM)Baggers link Wrote:Trump has paved the way for those cut from the same cloth - liars and grifters.
George has a long way to go before he gets anywhere near Aurangzeb's ability for fabrication:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-george-santos-lies_n_63cb15dae4b07c0c7dfc736d
I guess that if a pathological liar can become POTUS, fanboys will try to emulate him.
Re: The strange case of George Santos - Mav - 01-23-2023
(01-23-2023, 01:07 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Just pick your team and ignore their lies.And that’s the end of the ball game right there. Once you promote the idea that being caught lying is just a tribal thing, then truth doesn’t matter one bit. Indeed, being caught in a big lie is sure to win you praise from your tribe because it will certainly upset the other tribe. Until there can be common ground that lying is a black mark which may require the tribe to disown the liar and take a short term hit, no real debates on policy are possible. You need some common ground and agreed facts to have sensible debates.
Re: The strange case of George Santos - Thryleon - 01-23-2023
The problem with a lie, is that its not a lie if you believe it, and that it was formed based on an interpretation of the truth.
Therefore, even if caught provided you can prove that this was what you believed was the truth based on the information you had at the time, it isnt a lie.
You have to prove someone knew what they were saying was false to actually catch them lieing.
Most politicians can't lie straight in bed, let alone when they speak.
Ultimately, it's only a lie when they admit that it was one. Anything else is speculation. Is Trump any different to the others is an important question. The answer is unclear but I would say no. In some ways he is more honest than the rest, because he makes no attempt to hide behind being a decent human being like the other politicians.
Our political model needs to change. They represent the common man, but are anything but.
Re: The strange case of George Santos - Mav - 01-23-2023
it’s not true that it needs an admission from the liar to prove a lie. If that were true, there would be very few fraud convictions. And since most crimes require proof of intent, hardly any could be prosecuted given the accused could claim there was no intent.
The courts have always applied the observation that the state of someone’s mind can be inferred just as much as the state of his or her stomach.
This isn’t even a rarified legal concept. In every day life, we have to sort out lies and truth. Cheating partners and lying kids are hardly unknown in life.
Re: The strange case of George Santos - DJC - 01-23-2023
Of course, we can't forget, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."
Apparently Clinton justified his porky on the grounds that penovaginal intercourse did not occur. When he finally fessed up, it was to an "improper physical relationship".
The difference in the standards expected of US and Australian politicians is interesting. Santos can get away with concocting a fictional life, family, education and career while Dominic Perrottet is held to account for wearing a Nazi uniform to a fancy dress party when he was 21.
Re: The strange case of George Santos - Baggers - 01-23-2023
Sorry, MBB, I do believe it... In fact, more surety than belief.
Trump lowered an already pretty low bar. In fact, he dug an enormous trench to house his low regard for honesty. And that gave the green light to those already so inclined. The man is devoid of ethics, morality and values... so lying comes easy. Narcissists create their own reality and force or inspire others to obey or follow suit. He has the psychological / emotional maturity of a 12 yr old. Guilt or even shame at lying is the response most of us feel when lying, or, being caught out lying. Narcissists are not encumbered by guilt or shame. In fact they become enraged when caught out.
Trump operates from the Stone playbook - deny, deny, deny, then throw twice as much mud back at the accuser. Interestingly, it's the same playbook Scientology operates from.
In most civilized (??) countries both Trump and Santos would have been sent packing long, long ago.
Here in Oz, Santos would have been flicked long ago, as soon as the lies were proven. The US really is in decline, serious decline, when such known obscene behaviour is tolerated... sheesh, it's even rewarded!
Re: The strange case of George Santos - Lods - 01-23-2023
The problem for the Yanks is they are 'spoiled' for choices.
And I mean 'spoiled' in the terms of rot and decay.
Re: The strange case of George Santos - kruddler - 01-23-2023
(01-23-2023, 12:59 AM)LP link Wrote:I just do not get the US population, a large portion of them seem willing to be defrauded, it's like they want it to happen so they can blame their circumstance on somebody else, like "My crap life was because of my circumstance and out of my control!" Maybe some are so dumb they think "If I vote for Trump he may reward me with a pocket full of cash!", when in reality at his hotels Trump will replace higher paid local staff with low wage Sth American or Mexican imports.Cambridge analytica have a large say in all this.
There very targetted propoganda feeding BS to those who are looking for it was the difference between Trump getting up or being laughed out of town. They are very good at their job. Remarkably good its scary.
There was a good doco on that, i think it could be The Great Hack (or something similar) which is on Netflix at the moment that goes into great detail on how good they are at their job.
Something like 9 out of 10 elections around the world they have 'got their man' off the back of their targetted propoganda.
Its ironic that trumps catchphrase 'fake news' is what actually won him the election.
Re: The strange case of George Santos - Baggers - 01-23-2023
(01-23-2023, 10:37 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Cambridge analytica have a large say in all this.
There very targetted propoganda feeding BS to those who are looking for it was the difference between Trump getting up or being laughed out of town. They are very good at their job. Remarkably good its scary.
There was a good doco on that, i think it could be The Great Hack (or something similar) which is on Netflix at the moment that goes into great detail on how good they are at their job.
Something like 9 out of 10 elections around the world they have 'got their man' off the back of their targetted propoganda.
Its ironic that trumps catchphrase 'fake news' is what actually won him the election.
Watched it (The Great Hack) a while back, and, yep... scary. Very scary.