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+--- Thread: Ajla Tomljanović vs America (/thread-5796.html)
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - Baggers - 09-03-2022
(09-03-2022, 01:07 PM)Mav link Wrote:She won 13 of her Grand Slam titles prior to the Open Era. Serena won all hers in the Open Era when prize money ensured all slams were hotly contested.
The other knock on Court is that she won 11 out of her 24 titles in Australia and 8 of those were contested only by amateurs. The distance and cost of travel thinned out the competition. Now, we are used to all the top players coming to the Aus Open as it offers the biggest prize pool but the Aus Open was the poor relation of the other slams until it moved away from Kooyong. There was even a time when serious consideration was being given to stripping the Aus Open of its Grand Slam status and giving it to the Italian Open.
I have no doubt Serena should be seen as the GOAT.
Exactly. And why comparing two great tennis players from different eras for the title of GOAT is actually meaningless.
And on the other point... Court tarnished her reputation with her repugnant views on human sexuality and marriage partner choice(s). Attempting to legitimize her comments re Fundamentalist Biblical quotes is just lazy, ignorant and tiresome.
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - Gointocarlton - 09-04-2022
(09-03-2022, 11:25 PM)Baggers link Wrote:Exactly. And why comparing two great tennis players from different eras for the title of GOAT is actually meaningless.Im able to separate ones sporting achievements from humanitarian/morality standpoints. Maybe Ive got a bit of "serial killer" in me.
And on the other point... Court tarnished her reputation with her repugnant views on human sexuality and marriage partner choice(s). Attempting to legitimize her comments re Fundamentalist Biblical quotes is just lazy, ignorant and tiresome.
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - Lods - 09-04-2022
(09-04-2022, 12:16 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Im able to separate ones sporting achievements from humanitarian/morality standpoints. Maybe Ive got a bit of "serial killer" in me.
I've just made a post on this theme in the 'General Discussion' thread but extended it to achievements in other fields as well (specifically music.)
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - PaulP - 09-04-2022
(09-03-2022, 10:32 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:why else would they dismissive the proverbial score on the board when it doesnt apply to other teams such as Carlton, Liverpool, Essendon, Collingwood.
The definition justifying Serena as GOAT should see Hawthorn lauded as the AFLs GOAT.
I don't understand your point.
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - Thryleon - 09-04-2022
Margaret court has achieved things no one else has and did it in an era that contained greats such as evonne goolagong, Billie jean king, and Martina Navratilova. She held the title of all 4 grand slams in one calender year twice during her career.
I cannot fathom why we are devaluing her sporting achievements because she won 11 Aussie opens with qualifying statements.
She played in an era with her peers, and achieved a lot against them. Why the push to requalify what a GOAT is?
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - LP - 09-04-2022
(09-04-2022, 01:29 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Margaret court has achieved things no one else has and did it in an era that contained greats such as evonne goolagong, Billie jean king, and Martina Navratilova. She held the title of all 4 grand slams in one calender year twice during her career.Not really any overlap between Court and Navratilova, one was semi-retired playing only doubles when the other was just starting out.
It could be argued the off-court platitudes are as a result of on-court success, but the wokism seems to disregard this, they are either unable or unwilling to separate emotion from politics, cancel culture is exactly as the term suggests. In reality it's a form of collective rock throwing.
But fans perhaps should not justify the off-court behaviour of some, Court, Joker, Connors, etc al, using their on-court success as an excuse. The criticisms and sanctions are not related to what happens on court.
FWIW, I see the same applying to Goodes, in a case where his means(behaviour) cannot be justified away by the ends no matter how good the intentions. By some weird logic, those criticisms are somehow turned by boosters into an ad-hominem attack on Goodes, or even more weirdly support for racists or bigots, but of course that is not true either, it's just another form of extremism.
That saying about heading far enough right or left only to end up back in the middle was never truer than right at this moment in time.
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - Baggers - 09-04-2022
(09-04-2022, 01:29 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Margaret court has achieved things no one else has and did it in an era that contained greats such as evonne goolagong, Billie jean king, and Martina Navratilova. She held the title of all 4 grand slams in one calender year twice during her career.
I cannot fathom why we are devaluing her sporting achievements because she won 11 Aussie opens with qualifying statements.
She played in an era with her peers, and achieved a lot against them. Why the push to requalify what a GOAT is?
Because GOAT is subjective and selective. Her achievements on the tennis court were great. Tremendous. And deserving of acknowledgement and admiration. By not subscribing to GOAT is not to devalue her achievements.
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - PaulP - 09-04-2022
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/25/serena-williams-margaret-court-grand-slam-record/
Food for thought.
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - Mav - 09-04-2022
Yep. Only the “Everyone has a right to be a bigot” crew would back Court over Serena.
I’m trying to think of when a non-Carlton fan has acknowledged that Carlton is the GOAT … no, it’s never happened. Perhaps this is similar to the current debate: only Court’s fans would bother claiming she is the GOAT. No one else who knows anything about tennis would agree.
Re: Ajla Tomljanović vs America - LP - 09-04-2022
(09-04-2022, 03:42 AM)Mav date Wrote:Yep. Only the “Everyone has a right to be a bigot” crew would back Court over Serena.Bigotry has neither an inherent or implied vector.