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+--- Thread: trudeau (/thread-5527.html)
Re: trudeau - Thryleon - 02-19-2022
Interesting. Without context, the line between being a nazi and actively fighting what one perceives as one seems to be a very, very fine line.
Some of the comments about government authoritarianism is quite shocking.
People have the right to protest against what they're witnessing is a government disservice.
Here we see people advocating for frozen bank accounts, loss of livelihoods and potentially lives.
When I watch a movie like the pianist, which action resembles a Jewish person being ostracised? Is it right to do that, and if you're advocating for government action resembling this, then careful you aren't standing on the wrong side of history later. Most government actions are not fully understood whilst injustice is being done until much later and I see people almost advocating for gulags to become the way to deal with recalcitrant citizens.
Very interesting to see the psychology at work.
Re: trudeau - LP - 02-19-2022
(02-19-2022, 01:38 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Very interesting to see the psychology at work.There might be a perceived difference between the right to protest, and the right to take actions that harm others.
Nobody has the right to protest if it harms someone else, there is a world of difference between causing an inconvenience to highlight an issue, and a blockade of food, fuel and medicine.
So for me the difference was even shown here in Melbourne, when anti-vax and anti-mask protestors started blockading / interfering with ambulance or other emergency services. The protest became the tantrum of a spoilt toddler prepared to hurt others to get their own way, but they are not toddlers they are adults who have to face the consequences of their actions!
Re: trudeau - Thryleon - 02-19-2022
(02-19-2022, 01:44 AM)LP link Wrote:There might be a perceived difference between the right to protest, and the right to take actions that harm others.
Nobody has the right to protest if it harms someone else, there is a world of difference between causing an inconvenience to highlight an issue, and a blockade of food, fuel and medicine.
Lp, I'm not keeping abreast of what is going on, but simply reading the comments here.
If you review what I've stated here through that lens I'm looking at only the way people on this forum are advocating treating others and we have no real concept of the impact on every day people over there. I know one Canadian and she isn't saying anything about whats going on over there.
Re: trudeau - Mav - 02-19-2022
You obviously haven't realised that right wingers love to say anyone who is a left-winger is a communist (and are happy to do the same with any conservative who isn't as far to the right as they are, e.g. calling them RINOs in the US). I couldn't be bothered railing against that. Instead, I just return the favour by saying anyone right-wing is a nazi or a fascist. Hey presto, we have synonyms for left & right wingers. Of course the right-whingers will do what they do they best when the table is turned: whinge. I couldn't give a feck.
If right-wingers weren't so hypocritical, I'd be more respectful. Imagine if they lived the principle that, "I disapprove of what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it". In some parallel universe, maybe that's so. But not in this one.
FFS, right-wingers couldn't even cope with Colin Kaepernick going down on 1 knee as a silent protest. They were running around with their hair on fire. No doubt if the truckers were black and it was a BLM protest, the same pearl-clutchers who worry about freedom to protest would be advocating dropping bombs on them.
Re: trudeau - LP - 02-19-2022
(02-19-2022, 01:47 AM)Thryleon date Wrote:Lp, I'm not keeping abreast of what is going on, but simply reading the comments here.I've contacts in Canada, they tell me the effect of the transport blockade was particularly bad in regional areas, there they basically found empty shelves in supermarkets, no fuel for heating, a shortage of critical medicines.
If you review what I've stated here through that lens I'm looking at only the way people on this forum are advocating treating others and we have no real concept of the impact on every day people over there. I know one Canadian and she isn't saying anything about whats going on over there.
The media focussed on the impact the blockade had on the commercial world, a shortage of supplies for car makers, etc., and completely ignored the human cost. Just another sign of how sick the media has become.
What alarms me is how quickly things deteriorated, not unlike our great bog roll shortage of 2020, imagine that applying to pretty much everything! :o
The other thing that is alarming is how little disruption is required to send things into a spin, I heard one estimate the road blockade reduce supply by less than 20%, yet still having 80% of what is normally available had a massive impact. But I suppose the tell is in the impact of regional areas. It's not that they all get 20% less universally, the problem is that 80% of people are basically not affected, and 20% might get nothing at all, it is not linear. If you are at the end of the supply chain, bad luck for you!
Re: trudeau - capcom - 02-19-2022
(02-19-2022, 01:15 AM)LP link Wrote:Be careful of trusting those polls, often the sponsors pre-determine the result by careful choice of both question and participant.
I quoted it ... I didn't participate LP. Look at the US VP. Another dead duck.
Re: trudeau - LP - 02-19-2022
Maybe I'm sheltered, but it appears to me you have to be within certain circles to even see or stumble across these sorts of reports, that may well be a tell that they are a tad partisan.
There seems to be a lot of self-fertilization going around!
Re: trudeau - DJC - 02-19-2022
(02-19-2022, 01:38 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Interesting. Without context, the line between being a nazi and actively fighting what one perceives as one seems to be a very, very fine line.
Some of the comments about government authoritarianism is quite shocking.
People have the right to protest against what they're witnessing is a government disservice.
Here we see people advocating for frozen bank accounts, loss of livelihoods and potentially lives.
When I watch a movie like the pianist, which action resembles a Jewish person being ostracised? Is it right to do that, and if you're advocating for government action resembling this, then careful you aren't standing on the wrong side of history later. Most government actions are not fully understood whilst injustice is being done until much later and I see people almost advocating for gulags to become the way to deal with recalcitrant citizens.
Very interesting to see the psychology at work.
Yes, there’s no doubt that people have the right to peaceful protest in liberal democracies. However, there’s a difference between peaceful protests and gatherings that use force, disruption of other folks’ lives and livelihood and/or threats to promote a particular belief or beliefs.
People can carry placards, hire skywriters, perform street theatre, march through the streets (within reason), flood social media, call talkback radio, place ads in the media, write to politicians, vote against the government, stand for parliament, etc, etc. Blockading streets and/or denying others the use of infrastructure, public places or the freedom to go about one’s legitimate interests is going too far.
It doesn’t matter whether it’s freedumbers, anti-vaxxers, extinction rebellion, or the folk who don’t like what’s happening at the Collingwood children’s farm; protest all you like but comply with the law.
Re: trudeau - capcom - 02-19-2022
(02-19-2022, 03:56 AM)LP link Wrote:Maybe I'm sheltered, but it appears to me you have to be within certain circles to even see or stumble across these sorts of reports, that may well be a tell that they are a tad partisan.
There seems to be a lot of self-fertilization going around!
Pardon?
Re: trudeau - Mav - 02-19-2022
This Is Why Conservatives Love The Canadian Truckers, Huffpost.
Quote:When Black Lives Matter or other liberal protest groups block a road for an evening, there is no shortage of calls for violence. Right-wing legislators hastily pass laws that would make it legal to run over protesters, and conservative pundits flood the airwaves and social media to decry the unspeakable horror of holding up traffic for a few hours.
But now that a very loud but ultimately small group of white people in Canada have disrupted the flow of goods and people for weeks, their tone is, predictably, different. Black people and their allies protesting police brutality is an affront to the American project. But fighting for the liberty to contract an infectious disease and give it to your neighbor? That’s called freedom, baby.
It’s no coincidence that the BLM protests — large and diverse in nature — are treated differently than a small minority of white people protesting public health measures. The protests, which have altered significant parts of daily Canadian life, are providing American conservatives a taste of what they’ve been dreaming of for so long: white minority rule.
Conservative news media and other supporters of the Canadian truckers have made it a point to prioritize the feelings and wants of a perpetually aggrieved white minority who believe their so-called freedoms are more important than the health and livelihood of the majority of Canadians.