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+--- Thread: The rise.... and RISE of Marc Pittonet (/thread-4788.html)
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - LP - 07-15-2020
(07-15-2020, 07:59 AM)kruddler date Wrote:For those pumping up Kreuzers tyres....They were playing under different rules when Kreuzer was Pittonet's current age!
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=4077&pid2=2301&fid1=O&fid2=O
At the same age, Pittonet is averaging 1.6 more clearances a game.
A little less around the ground, but people saying Kreuzer should be used as a ruck rover need to rethink those opinions.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - LP - 07-15-2020
(07-15-2020, 07:45 AM)kruddler date Wrote:The CA% is essentially (hitouts to advantage / number of centre bounces attended). So it takes into account every single hitout that the ruck contested. Included every single one that he lost. How do i know this? I created the stat!Pittonet by your own stats only wins 35% of hitouts, if more than a 1/3rd of them(15%) are to advantage he isn't just the best Carlton ruckmen he is the greatest ruckmen of all time at any club that ever existed!
Well what you do to make up stats is a matter for you, but if you are going to make up stats, you best clearly define to and stick with it, because by your own earlier post you've redefined the stat. I'll know next time to cross check whatever you post in case more of it is made up!
(07-15-2020, 04:26 AM)kruddler date Wrote:CA% - Contests to Advantage % - What percentage of ruck contests that you competed in, resulted in a hitout to advantage
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - jeza - 07-16-2020
(07-15-2020, 04:37 AM)LP link Wrote:Having Cripps at a rucks feet makes a huge difference, as did Judd.
Pittonet is reasonable in the center bounce, Phillips was very good in the bounce, Hampson was extraordinarily good at the center bounce, Kreuzer has never been a very good at the bounce, but he and Hampson had Judd. But all that is an assessment based on the effects of the tap and the tap alone, but it's not about the tap as the tap is only about 10 or 15% of the ruck's duty.
That by the way is exposed by the stats, against Gawn, Pittonet's CA of 15% out of 35% wins is 5.25%, or just a bit better than 1 good result out of every 20 attempts! So for 65 RCs that is a grand total of about 3-1/2 contested hit outs to an advantage for a whole game.
I've always argued the rucking deficits of the likes of Phillips and Casboult are not related to the tap, but it's all about what happens next. Casboult has recently improved the rest of ruck play dramatically, so he has gone up in my opinion.
Pittonet is OK but isn't a fraction of what Kreuzer offers around the ground, in possession chains, the positioning.
Another interesting tell is that only Kreuzer is talked about as a potential chop-out option for Cripps, that idea only exists because of everything other than the tap.
But the bloke who exposes the folly of these stats more than any other is Warnock, completely dominant in the tap but utterly worthless overall. They could call Warnock "The Tap King", and he'd go the same way, extinction!
Don't know if you noticed but Cripps is barely touching it this year.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - jeza - 07-16-2020
Pumping up Pitto doesn't have to mean we're slagging off Kreuzer.
Just enjoying the league's best hitout-er at the minute wearing navy blue.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - DJC - 07-16-2020
There's no doubt that Pittonet has seized his opportunity and made the most of it. After seven games in four years with the Hawks, he is poised to double or perhaps treble his game tally in one season with us.
As I remarked in another thread, watching him compete against Kreuzer in a pre-season practise match filled me with dread; he simply wasn't able to match it with Matty's nous, positioning and body strength. However, once he got the call up, he has acquitted himself very well and, at worst, has been competitive against one of the game's best ruckmen. However, he still has a long way to go before he could be considered anywhere near the standard of most teams' first rucks.
For example, Tim English has been in the AFL system for two years less than Pittonet, is a little taller and is significantly lighter but has played three times as many games. Pittonet got more hitouts (27-33) but English had more disposals (17-7) and more marks (3-0). They both laid one tackle. Yes, Pittonet may have got more hitouts to advantage (and some of his hitouts would have earned praise from Big Nick) but he was rucking to a rampant midfield (we won the clearances 33-30). That was a clear win to English.
Against the Saints, Pittonet squared the hitouts with Marshall but the latter had 19 disposals to Pittonet's 5. Marshall is six months older than Pittonet and is basically the same height and weight. A resounding win to Marshall.
Bellchambers is Kreuzer vintage and would struggle to get a game with most teams. He just pipped Pittonet for hitouts. The latter was more effective around the ground and you would have to score that as a win to Pittonet.
Pittonet smashed Stanley in the ruck contests and broke even around the ground. A resounding win for Pittonet.
Gawn flogged Pittonet, but there's no disgrace in that. To Pittonet's credit, he fought back well and was a more effective player in the second half.
Yes, hitouts to advantage are important but they measure the ability of the midfield as much as the ability of the ruckmen. However, they are only part of the story. Negating the opposition ruckman's influence around the ground is a key to winning footy and Pittonet hasn't shown that he can do that. Furthermore, he is a long way from having an influence around the ground.
If Pittonet's numbers start to approach those of English we can heave a sigh of relief for we will have found/developed a replacement for Kreuzer. The King might have something to say about that though.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - Gointocarlton - 07-16-2020
(07-16-2020, 01:29 PM)DJC link Wrote:If Pittonet's numbers start to approach those of English we can heave a sigh of relief for we will have found/developed a replacement for Kreuzer. The King might have something to say about that though.The King just turned 21 and hasn't struck a blow yet so I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm over getting excited about potential, Pitto is the now and is done a sterling job to date. My worry is that he will now start to get targeted (just like Doc did after a few weeks off the leash). The PA rucks will go after him make no mistake about it, lets see how he responds.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - kruddler - 07-17-2020
(07-15-2020, 10:30 PM)LP link Wrote:Pittonet by your own stats only wins 35% of hitouts,
In his first game he won 35% of his hitouts (against Max Gawn) Correct.
(07-15-2020, 10:30 PM)LP link Wrote:if more than a 1/3rd of them(15%) are to advantage he isn't just the best Carlton ruckmen he is the greatest ruckmen of all time at any club that ever existed!Well there you have it. He is the greatest ruck of all time then.
The stats don't lie.
He had 23 hitouts against Gawn and the Dees. 10 of them went to our advantage. (That is 45% of the hitouts he got his hand on went directly to our advantage - HA%).
He was in 65 contests.
He 'only' won 23.
Yet 10 hitouts went to advantage.
So 10/65 = .....*wait for it*.....15%! Just as i said it did.
(07-15-2020, 10:30 PM)LP link Wrote:Well what you do to make up stats is a matter for you, but if you are going to make up stats, you best clearly define to and stick with it, because by your own earlier post you've redefined the stat. I'll know next time to cross check whatever you post in case more of it is made up!
If you are going to cut up rough and attack someone and accuse them of making stuff up, you best clearly reread the earlier post where the stats are defined. You'll know for next time that you should cross check your own interpretation in case your initial interpretations are made up! :-[
8)
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - kruddler - 07-17-2020
Now personally i never said he was the best ruckman of all time, but LP just said it, so there we have it.
Marc Pittonet - The greatest ruckman of all time at any club than ever existed!
(07-15-2020, 10:30 PM)LP link Wrote:Pittonet.....he is the greatest ruckmen of all time at any club that ever existed!
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - kruddler - 07-17-2020
FWIW, his season total is as follows.
He has competed in 296 ruck contests so far this season.
He has won 134 hitouts (45%)
He has a total of 49 hitouts to advantage so far this season.
So 37% of the hitouts he wins go directly to our advantage.
and 17% of all ruck contests he competes in, goes to our advantage.
That means a little over 1 in 6 ruck contests he competes in, the ball goes directly to our advantage.
Can you imagine getting the ball handed to you via a free kick from 1 in 6 stoppages? That is essentially what he is doing with his ruck work.
Which is why i'm banging on about his efforts thus far because by the AFLs own stats, he is ELITE in that area.
Re: The rise and RISE of Marc Pittonet - PaulP - 07-17-2020
https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Compare?playerIds=CD_I293957,CD_I298290&comparisonTab=h2h
Before anyone starts foaming at the mouth, I'm not expecting MP to be like Grundy. just comparing him to the current gold standard.
Select "season avg" and "advanced stats" to get a better picture.