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+--- Thread: Another School Shooting in the US (/thread-3625.html)
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - Thryleon - 02-16-2018
Without wanting to sound completely insensitive, this seems like old news.
Nothing changes, everything stays the same.
I wish it didnt happen, but its not a matter of if, but when it happens again.
Very sad. I sometimes think that the world would be a much better place without humanity.
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - blueycarlton - 02-16-2018
(02-15-2018, 05:20 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:Interested to read recently about the US constitution which is very strong on protecting the people from oppression and tyranny, including that which could arise from the government. The scarring experiences suffered during the George III regime shaped such a distrust of government that the right to bear arms for citizen protection became paramount. Today of course this seems rather pointless in view of the weaponry the government could theoretically deploy against the populace but it is not going to be given up easily. I can't see things changing any time soon.
The only reason of the right to bear arms, was because the young US was broke, and couldn't afford a standing army. The minute men were successful in the War of Independence so they relied on armed citizens. It should have been repealed once the US could afford an army.
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - cookie2 - 02-16-2018
(02-16-2018, 04:22 AM)blueycarlton link Wrote:The only reason of the right to bear arms, was because the young US was broke, and couldn't afford a standing army. The minute men were successful in the War of Independence so they relied on armed citizens. It should have been repealed once the US could afford an army.
May have been one of the reasons but the constitution was written to ensure division of governmental power and the protection of citizens from potential tyranny by the government. The second amendment ensured "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." There is a strong argument put forward by some in the US that abolishing the right to bear arms imperils that freedom and that gun crime is part of the price for that. It does seem like an alien concept to us but I can't see it changing anytime soon, and certainly not without a massive fight. Much easier said than done.
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - DJC - 02-16-2018
(02-16-2018, 04:43 AM)cookie2 link Wrote:May have been one of the reasons but the constitution was written to ensure division of governmental power and the protection of citizens from potential tyranny by the government. The second amendment ensured "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." There is a strong argument put forward by some in the US that abolishing the right to bear arms imperils that freedom and that gun crime is part of the price for that. It does seem like an alien concept to us but I can't see it changing anytime soon, and certainly not without a massive fight. Much easier said than done.
When the second amendment was passed, "arms" were smoothbore muzzle loaders that the average Joe could fire once every 60 seconds and, with a bit of luck, hit the side of a barn at 60 paces. While that illustrates the folly of being bound by statutes written in another time, I wonder whether it would be possible to define "arms" as "smoothbore muzzle loaders" or perhaps single shot, low powered rifles. Many states have successfully banned assault rifles so it shouldn't be too hard.
I note that the POTUS spoke about addressing mental illness in his response but didn't mention gun control (or guns I believe). Addressing mental illness is an important point but equally important is removing firearms that are designed specifically for human targets.
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - cookie2 - 02-16-2018
(02-16-2018, 05:00 AM)DJC link Wrote:When the second amendment was passed, "arms" were smoothbore muzzle loaders that the average Joe could fire once every 60 seconds and, with a bit of luck, hit the side of a barn at 60 paces. While that illustrates the folly of being bound by statutes written in another time, I wonder whether it would be possible to define "arms" as "smoothbore muzzle loaders" or perhaps single shot, low powered rifles. Many states have successfully banned assault rifles so it shouldn't be too hard.
I note that the POTUS spoke about addressing mental illness in his response but didn't mention gun control (or guns I believe). Addressing mental illness is an important point but equally important is removing firearms that are designed specifically for human targets.
It will tax far superior legal intellects than mine DJC. The NRA is a very powerful group and political donor and it has been very vocal in its opposition to change. The Dems may have thought about it but the GOP do not appear to have shown a lot of interest. In my, albeit pessimistic view, don't hold your breath.
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - Lods - 02-16-2018
We're wasting our breath and wearing out the keyboards.
They are never gonna change their thinking.
They get quite indignant when other nations suggest there is a better approach and they argue more would be killed if the 'good guys' didn't have guns.
In fact the more we condemn them the more many Americans seem to dig their heels in demonstrating a "We know best!" attitude.
While we recognise the stupidity of that line of thinking it goes over their heads.
There are sensible people with a will to change, but they're a bit like King Canute ordering back the waves. They know they face an impossible task.
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - Gointocarlton - 02-17-2018
(02-16-2018, 06:26 AM)Lods link Wrote:We're wasting our breath and wearing out the keyboards.That right there sums it up perfectly. Lets focus on making our own back yard better than it already is and learn from the mistakes of others like the US. I have said this countless times, I am a sporting shooter/hunter but the best thing Howard did was to have the cahones to get rid of semi autos and assault rifles. If it were up to me, I'd be seriously considering getting rid of hand guns also once and for all.
They are never gonna change their thinking.
They get quite indignant when other nations suggest there is a better approach and they argue more would be killed if the 'good guys' didn't have guns.
In fact the more we condemn them the more many Americans seem to dig their heels in demonstrating a "We know best!" attitude.
While we recognise the stupidity of that line of thinking it goes over their heads.
There are sensible people with a will to change, but they're a bit like King Canute ordering back the waves. They know they face an impossible task.
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - mateinone - 02-22-2018
How inevitable that the suggestion would be to arm the teachers.
You have the worst school shootings in the world and rather than look at why the rest of the world don't have them, you look to add more guns.
It will eventually be the students that drive change, doing away with a retched situation their parents were to gutless & selfish to address, as it has been in other countries and situations throughout time.
It makes me physically ill to think about how parents there actually have to worry their kids might just get shot & killed going to school. Something completely unimaginable here.
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - PaulP - 02-22-2018
Not sure how arming the teachers helps, but it is the US after all. Way back in the 80's when Peter Garrett still had some cred, he said something like "guns are the American solution to everything."
Re: Another School Shooting in the US - Lods - 02-22-2018
The stupidest ever idea would be to arm teachers.
They're the last group of folks you would want armed given the pressures and confrontations with students some of them face.