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+--- Thread: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 (/thread-2942.html)
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - LP - 09-13-2016
(09-13-2016, 10:42 AM)DJC link Wrote:I'm a bit over the "Casboult does his best work as second ruck" line. He doesn't; his best work is done when he works up the ground from centre half forward. Furthermore, his knee injury probably means that he won't be able to pinch hit in the ruck again.
Well we agree on something!
(09-13-2016, 09:53 PM)bobby link Wrote:Ever noticed how much attention Casboult gets? The opposition knows that if he gets a good run at the ball he will clunk it. Sometimes he is triple teamed when the ball comes in. We need to come up with some set plays that take advantage of this.
I don't know what the specific answer is, but if the opposition is going to exhibit predictable behaviour then maybe we can turn that into an advantage.
He needs to learn to use his bulk, for a guy who is 200cm x 100kg he's way to easy to offload, another reason why he is useless in the ruck. He should be hurting some of those guys who are beating up on him each week and they'll start to hesitate when they have to step into his line. Why do you think Mumford and Goldstein get a free run at the ball each stoppage, it's not because they are kind and gentle!
Casboult is almost Lockett size, how many would have had long AFL careers stepping in Lockett's way?
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - Thryleon - 09-14-2016
I dont know why you would want him using his bulk.
Much better to let him have multiple opponents, and for us to hit the free player with the ball rather than aim for him, and he can just roam around getting the odd kick, and the odd get out of jail high ball in.
Its not like we have a plethora of crumbing forwards.
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - DJC - 09-14-2016
(09-13-2016, 09:53 PM)bobby link Wrote:Ever noticed how much attention Casboult gets? The opposition knows that if he gets a good run at the ball he will clunk it. Sometimes he is triple teamed when the ball comes in. We need to come up with some set plays that take advantage of this.
I don't know what the specific answer is, but if the opposition is going to exhibit predictable behaviour then maybe we can turn that into an advantage.
The opposition analysts must have a different view of Casboult's ability than some supporters have :o
I think that there are several angles to the opposition's focus on Casboult and the obvious response is kick it to someone else. However, having other genuine marking options will spread the defenders and force one on one competitions. Casboult's running patterns need work so that he can get free and playing him up the ground will draw defenders away from the contest. How the forward line is structured and functions needs some work and the delivery to the forwards has to change; don't just kick it on to Casboult's head.
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - Gointocarlton - 09-14-2016
(09-13-2016, 09:58 PM)LP link Wrote:Casboult is almost Lockett size, how many would have had long AFL careers stepping in Lockett's way?Dunno but you could ask Peter Caven what that feels like ;D
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - LP - 09-14-2016
(09-14-2016, 12:21 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:I dont know why you would want him using his bulk.
Much better to let him have multiple opponents, and for us to hit the free player with the ball rather than aim for him, and he can just roam around getting the odd kick, and the odd get out of jail high ball in.
Its not like we have a plethora of crumbing forwards.
In a team that struggles to hit the side of a barn you cannot expect too much clean delivery.
We used to have crumbing forwards, they spent most of their time flying against the talls instead of getting front and square. Betts is better at Adelaide because he has reduced how much he flies for the ball. When he was at Carlton we would kick it over the likes of Kreuzer, Hampson and O'Hailpin to sit it on Bett's or Walker's head in the square, and we are not much better now!
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - laj - 09-14-2016
(09-13-2016, 10:42 AM)DJC link Wrote:I'm a bit over the "Casboult does his best work as second ruck" line. He doesn't; his best work is done when he works up the ground from centre half forward. Furthermore, his knee injury probably means that he won't be able to pinch hit in the ruck again.
Our tall forward stocks are limited with McKay still to make his debut, Jaksch looking more and more like another list management blunder, Jones providing effort but not much return and Weitering and Rowe required down back. Casboult is our remaining forward option and our forward structure should capitalise on his marking strength while minimising reliance on his kicking for goal. He should play as a high forward with his main focus on getting possession outside the 50 and occupying the goal square when there's a set shot from the 50.
We have to play another tall forward, and that could be McKay, perhaps Gorringe, or someone who isn't on our list yet. Charlie Curnow has shown enough to be pencilled in as a lead up forward and SOJ has shown that he is what I would call an opportunistic forward able to score from leads, finding space, crumbing and defensive pressure. Wright is a very good small forward/midfielder but there's still a spot for a genuine crumbing forward and a specialist defensive forward. Sumner and Armfield are contenders but are not certainties. Finally, we need Cripps, Gibbs, Murphy, Kerridge, Ed Curnow, Everitt, Thomas (if he goes around again), Kreuzer and Phillips to have an impact when they go forward.
Apart from Casboult's kicking, the forwards need to learn some running patterns so that they can create space as well as getting behind the defenders to make it easier for our inside 50s to hit targets.
I would start off with:
Charlie Curnow Casboult to be determined/recruited
Silvagni to be determined/recruited Wright
Casboult has consistently done his best work when he's forward/2nd ruck. That's been that way ever since he come into the side. Not sure how anyone could argue with that. A run on the ball always helps him no end. I'd prefer him 2nd rucking rather than one of our other ruckmen who do sweet FA when they are not rucking. Like having 17 men on the ground.
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - LP - 09-14-2016
(09-14-2016, 01:45 AM)laj link Wrote:Casboult has consistently done his best work when he's forward/2nd ruck. That's been that way ever since he come into the side. Not sure how anyone could argue with that. A run on the ball always helps him no end. I'd prefer him 2nd rucking rather than one of our other ruckmen who do sweet FA when they are not rucking. Like having 17 men on the ground.
Where are the facts and stats to support your case, put up some hard detail?
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - Thryleon - 09-14-2016
^^
LP, I would say at this point, its not worth posting numbers.
The argument has merit. Casboult does perform better playing up the ground be it part time rucking, or getting on his bike.
Dont really need to support it statistically. We see it most weeks. He usually gains confidence and kicks better for it too when its time to score goals.
The argument of we need another target in our forward line is generally acceptable. One that can allow him to get up the ground so he can perform better. It also shows benefit to our team in the wins we had this year as he generally played better with Jones and Everitt in the side.
I know you fixate on ruck contests a bit, but its not an argument worth making. Casboult is a different type to Kreuzer. They can work together.
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - madbluboy - 09-14-2016
Casboult is C grade at best where ever he plays.
Re: Talking Tactics - Our Forward Structure In 2017 - LP - 09-14-2016
(09-14-2016, 02:03 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:Casboult is C grade at best where ever he plays.Exactamundo!
(09-14-2016, 02:01 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:LP, I would say at this point, its not worth posting numbers.Facts are always worth posting, they debug bogus opinions!
(09-14-2016, 02:01 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:The argument has merit. Casboult does perform better playing up the ground be it part time rucking, or getting on his bike.No it doesn't it's a rubbish argument unsupported by facts.
(09-14-2016, 02:01 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Dont really need to support it statistically. We see it most weeks. He usually gains confidence and kicks better for it too when its time to score goals.It must be the vibe!
(09-14-2016, 02:01 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:The argument of we need another target in our forward line is generally acceptable. One that can allow him to get up the ground so he can perform better. It also shows benefit to our team in the wins we had this year as he generally played better with Jones and Everitt in the side.No problem, as long as it is instead of rather than with or alongside.
(09-14-2016, 02:01 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:I know you fixate on ruck contests a bit, but its not an argument worth making. Casboult is a different type to Kreuzer. They can work together.Yes Kreuzer is effectively an extra midfielder, Casboult is an extra spectator!