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CV and mad panic behaviour - Printable Version

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 01-29-2021

(01-29-2021, 07:54 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Is she the lass that has since disappeared?
Think she did go missing for a bit last year but popped up on TV in China a bit later, there was talk of her defecting to the West.
She probably had a friendly pep talk with some lovely people  from the State Security Ministry who convinced her to go back to the bat cave and resume the party line protocol...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - capcom - 01-29-2021

Very VERY good EB Smile Smile

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - Thryleon - 01-29-2021

Just to put a modicum of balance to this argument about bio weapons.

The media we are all quoting lie to us as much as China would and would happily tell us the sort of crap we all want to hear or believe to keep us under their control.

Any report about a bat woman and bio weapon coming from them can't be trusted.  That's how you avoid confirmation bias from clouding your judgement.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 01-30-2021

For those of you concerned by the various reports of various vaccine efficacy from 96% to 60% or less, know that efficacy as measured and reported is a very grey area, it's not a cut-off figure it's a gradient.

A vaccine that reduces symptoms can be just as effective as one that prevent infection, but how that is reported varies across global regions, and from study to study. For example, it could well be the case the Pfizer(96%) and Oxford(66%) vaccines are equally effective if reported under the same regime.

For example a vaccine might be reported as 50% efficacious because half the treated people still get infected, but it might be 100% effective at preventing acute symptoms. But how that is reported depends on the type of study and where it was conducted.

I asked a question of a researcher at CSIRO. What level of effectiveness makes a vaccine worthwhile? They replied they accept anything above 50% as being a very functional vaccine, apparently many of the seasonal shots we get can be as low as 30% efficacious, but that doesn't mean they do not still diminish an infections symptoms.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 01-30-2021

I think you want a vaccine that prevents infection thus limiting spread and also reduces the severity of symptoms. Can't see the point if it's not real effective at both.
The Chinese vaccine is old tech making it easier to make and store like I said before.
It might be appealing to 3rd world nations or poorer countries but you wouldn't get too many Western residents wanting to be jabbed with anything China were peddling.
If you ran a poll on this site, I reckon you wouldn't get one person wanting the Chinese version...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 01-30-2021

(01-30-2021, 04:36 AM)ElwoodBlues1 date Wrote:I think you want a vaccine that prevents infection thus limiting spread and also reduces the severity of symptoms. Can't see the point if it's not real effective at both.
That is not the case [member=57]ElwoodBlues1[/member]‍, many highly effective vaccines do not prevent infection.

For example the Hooping Cough vaccine doesn't prevent infection, but it 100% eliminates symptoms, which is why some anti-vaxers are so negligent when all they do is ask everybody else to get vaccinated and not vaccinate their own child!

FWIW, vaccines work one of two ways, they can provide an antibody response, so that generally prevents infections, or they can make the immune system T-Cells aware of proteins on the target virus or bacteria and cause the T-Cells to kill off the infection before it does harm. The T-Cell version does not stop you getting an infection, in fact T-Cells do nothing until the infection is in your system, but can be so effective at eliminating the symptoms and effects that people do not even know they have been infected.

Of all the vaccines you ever had the functional split is about 50/50, which will surprise a lot of people.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - ElwoodBlues1 - 01-30-2021

(01-30-2021, 04:54 AM)LP link Wrote:That is not the case [member=57]ElwoodBlues1[/member]‍, many highly effective vaccines do not prevent infection.

For example the Hooping Cough vaccine doesn't prevent infection, but it 100% eliminates symptoms, which is why some anti-vaxers are so negligent when all they do is ask everybody else to get vaccinated and not vaccinate their own child!

FWIW, vaccines work one of two ways, they can provide an antibody response, so that generally prevents infections, or they can make the immune system T-Cells aware of proteins on the target virus or bacteria and cause the T-Cells to kill off the infection before it does harm. The T-Cell version does not to to stop you getting an infection, in fact T-Cells do nothing until the infection is in your system, but can be so effective at eliminating the symptoms and effects that you do not even know they have been infected. Of all the vaccines you ever had the functional split is about 50/50, which will surprise a lot of people.
Some vaccines stop you getting symptomatic disease, but others stop you getting infected too. The latter is known as “sterilising immunity”. With sterilising immunity, the virus can't even gain a toehold in the body because the immune system stops the virus entering cells and replicating.
Source: The conversation.com
I understand that most vaccines dont prevent infection but I was speaking in an ideal case...
I'm not a virologist just a simple elec engineer but getting to theme of my comments and thats the Chinese vaccine vs the others and I'm not sure you can return to normal in the big picture with one offering 50% effectiveness and others offering 90-95%.
Would you allow Brazilians, Indonesians, etc who have had the Chinese vaccine into Australia or allow them to travel without normal quarantine procedures?


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - LP - 01-30-2021

(01-30-2021, 05:14 AM)ElwoodBlues1 date Wrote:Some vaccines stop you getting symptomatic disease, but others stop you getting infected too. The latter is known as “sterilising immunity”. With sterilising immunity, the virus can't even gain a toehold in the body because the immune system stops the virus entering cells and replicating.
Source: The conversation.com
I understand that most vaccines dont prevent infection but I was speaking in an ideal case...
I'm not a virologist just a simple elec engineer but getting to theme of my comments and thats the Chinese vaccine vs the others and I'm not sure you can return to normal in the big picture with one offering 50% effectiveness and others offering 90-95%.
Would you allow Brazilians, Indonesians, etc who have had the Chinese vaccine into Australia or allow them to travel without normal quarantine procedures?
I agree about infection prevention being the gold standard.

I suspect detection of an immune response will be a test, how you get it makes little difference once you've got it, but how you get it is
important in other respects. Likely this will be the $0.10c per test style drop of blood on an indicator stick test that are currently being developed for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies.

A little known fact and one obviously absent in some debates, particularly for all those promoting herd immunity through ignorance, and absent at those anti-vaxer infection parties, is that viral mutation is accelerated by the human immune system. So letting people get infected as a way of creating herd immunity is downright dangerous, as it increases the number of viral variants in circulation.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - PaulP - 01-30-2021

I'd be curious to know the country of manufacture of the standard injections Australian adults and kids receive - annual flu shot, measles, chickenpox etc.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour - capcom - 01-30-2021

(01-30-2021, 05:36 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I'd be curious to know the country of manufacture of the standard injections Australian adults and kids receive - annual flu shot, measles, chickenpox etc.

@PaulP .... GSK Pharmaceuticals.  Based in MEL and SYD

https://au.gsk.com/en-au/contact-us/