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+--- Thread: The Great Ruck Debate. (/thread-6556.html)
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - DJC - 07-21-2024
It's interesting watching the VFL team with Pitto, O'Keeffe, Mirkov, Lemmey and Young on the field. Our run and ability to cover the ground defensively doesn't seem to be compromised.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - kruddler - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 02:54 AM)DJC link Wrote:It's interesting watching the VFL team with Pitto, O'Keeffe, Mirkov, Lemmey and Young on the field. Our run and ability to cover the ground defensively doesn't seem to be compromised.Completely different team and team balance.
Pretty sure i've made that abundently clear that i am referring to our AFL side only. Not our VFL side, not our AFLW side. Not GWS' AFL side, or bombers AFL side or any other side.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - LP - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 02:54 AM)DJC date Wrote:It's interesting watching the VFL team with Pitto, O'Keeffe, Mirkov, Lemmey and Young on the field. Our run and ability to cover the ground defensively doesn't seem to be compromised.
(07-21-2024, 02:58 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Completely different team and team balance.Yes [member=324]DJC[/member], what are you thinking, it's a completely different game on a completely different ground with different umpires and different opponents, etc. etc...
Pretty sure i've made that abundently clear that i am referring to our AFL side only. Not our VFL side, not our AFLW side. Not GWS' AFL side, or bombers AFL side or any other side.
You know, the conclusions you make have to depend on each team and game, case by case, we can't expect one solution fits all, how silly of you! :
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - kruddler - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 03:06 AM)LP link Wrote:Yes [member=324]DJC[/member], what are you thinking, it's a completely different game on a completely different ground with different umpires and different opponents, etc. etc...
You know, the conclusions you make have to depend on each team and game, case by case, we can't expect one solution fits all, how silly of you! :
Tell me you don't understand the debate without telling me you don't understand the debate.
At least now i realise why this debate is still going. You blokes don't bloody read it properly.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - Lods - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 02:41 AM)kruddler link Wrote:1. If you are good enough, you pick a team to win and try and make the opposition defeat you. This is where we stand.
I'm not sure we're good enough...yet.
That will play out in the next few weeks.
But even the best of teams wouldn't operate solely on the above basis.
You need to pick a team that the oppositition finds hard to combat, but also you need to find a counter to the opposition weapons.
The 'rise of Cincotta' is a testament to that.
I reckon what we've seen in recent weeks is a bit of experimentation, and a bit of resting of players.
While some selections may have seemed a bit strange they're probably well thought out.
But that experimentation and managing should wind up, and the focus needs to turn towards first making the finals and then securing the best possible position.
The first shouldn't prove a huge challenge...
But lose today and our percentage is poorer than the 9th placed team and we're only a game ahead.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - DJC - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 02:58 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Completely different team and team balance.
Pretty sure i've made that abundently clear that i am referring to our AFL side only. Not our VFL side, not our AFLW side. Not GWS' AFL side, or bombers AFL side or any other side.
So the amount of time ruckmen spend on the bench is irrelevant unless their names are Pittonet and Tom De Koning?
Pitto’s inability to go forward and have an impact is really the only reason we don’t play two rucks. I can see us playing De Koning and O’Keeffe if the latter continues to develop.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - kruddler - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 03:12 AM)Lods link Wrote:I'm not sure we're good enough...yet.
That will play out in the next few weeks.
But even the best of teams wouldn't operate solely on the above basis.
You need to pick a team that the oppositition finds hard to combat, but also you need to find a counter to the opposition weapons.
The 'rise of Cincotta' is a testament to that.
I reckon what we've seen in recent weeks is a bit of experimentation, and a bit of resting of players.
While some selections may have seemed a bit strange they're probably well thought out.
But that experimentation and managing should wind up, and the focus needs to turn towards first making the finals and then securing the best possible position.
The first shouldn't prove a huge challenge...
But lose today and our percentage is poorer than the 9th placed team and we're only a game ahead.
We are good enough.
On any given day, we can certainly match it and beat any opposition team put out there.
Are we good enough to make it certain? Not yet.
But, play to your strengths. The moment we start changing our team, weaken it, to play against the opposition is the moment we start going down hill. Some of the recent changes may be proof ot that.
re %....
We have one of (if not THE) easiest run home from here. I expect our % to take care of itself a little bit from here on out and some other teams to fall.
The ladder doesn't lie.....in our case it shows we've had games against tough opposition.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - Lods - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 03:17 AM)kruddler link Wrote:We are good enough.
On any given day, we can certainly match it and beat any opposition team put out there.
Are we good enough to make it certain? Not yet.
But, play to your strengths. The moment we start changing our team, weaken it, to play against the opposition is the moment we start going down hill. Some of the recent changes may be proof ot that.
re %....
We have one of (if not THE) easiest run home from here. I expect our % to take care of itself a little bit from here on out and some other teams to fall.
The ladder doesn't lie.....in our case it shows we've had games against tough opposition.
The ladder is not always truthful.
Some games we thought would be easy may not be the cake-walk we thought.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - kruddler - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 03:15 AM)DJC link Wrote:So the amount of time ruckmen spend on the bench is irrelevant unless their names are Pittonet and Tom De Koning?
Pitto’s inability to go forward and have an impact is really the only reason we don’t play two rucks. I can see us playing De Koning and O’Keeffe if the latter continues to develop.
Closer.
This whole debate started because we had....
1. Harry and Charlie up forward
2. Weitering down back, with kemp/mcgovern/young/marchbank as other tall defender options
3. Silvagni as a 3rd tall forward/backup ruck.
With THAT side, we couldn't afford to play 2 rucks who could NOT play another position.
Now even without Silvagni throwing a spanner in the works, we still can't afford it.
Everyone concedes Pittonet can't play another position.
Most people agree that TDK is not good enough to play as a sole key forward as well.
Yes, he has had good games there. He has also had games worse than Fantasia there as well.
To make things clear, if Harry or Charlie can't play, TDK and Pittonet can absolutely play in the same team.
However, if i'm choosing my key forwards, i'm going with Harry and Charlie first. Tdk a distant 3rd option.
This is why i constantly talk about team balance and OUR side only. Its only about our side because our side is the only one that has 2 coleman medalists up forward and rucks who can't play elsewhere.
Even looking at Geelong with their 2 coleman medalists up forward, they have Blicavs who can play as a ruck or a wing.
My 'rules' don't apply to them.
Just us.
Its always been about us.
If anyone has thought otherwise, they haven't been paying attention to the debate.
Re: The Great Ruck Debate. - kruddler - 07-21-2024
(07-21-2024, 03:20 AM)Lods link Wrote:The ladder is not always truthful.
Some games we thought would be easy may not be the cake-walk we thought.
Of course, but you know that with or without a ladder.
Look how bad we've been over the past decade, we always managed to sneak a couple unexpected wins in there though. You expect the same this year....and every other year.
There is a difference between SHOULD win.....and actually winning.