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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood (/thread-5773.html)
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - Thryleon - 08-23-2022
(08-23-2022, 10:23 PM)PaulP link Wrote:There's not a shred of evidence anywhere that Bolton destroyed the list by playing kids. I know this is a pet theory of yours, and Lord knows we all have them, but there's no basis for it.its not the coach it's the club strategy. Its yet to show any real dividends but there is a key element missing in our team mentality and I believe its a similar affliction that has dogged the Giants and its the fact that players have never had to earn their stripes so to speak. Walsh and weitering are the exception not the rule. Cripps joined a midfield that had class in it so he needed to be class to break into it. The rest? Not so much. Thats our clubs fault. It might be that this is the reason we haven't taken another step forward sooner.
I'm sure if you asked Dow, Setterfield, O'Brien etc. whether they prefer languishing in Magoo no mans land or being given tough assignments playing with the big boys, they would give an obvious answer.
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - Lods - 08-23-2022
You could probably mount an argument that Teague hampered the development of players like Dow by moving them out of the way and giving their tasks to more experienced players.
The change from youth to experience gave us a short term fix but in the long run it wasn't successful, and probably made it difficult for the young ones to get continuity in their development.
Things like that were road blocks in the rebuild.
It made it a 'stop-start-reset' process that now extends to 7 years without a finals appearance.
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - pinot - 08-23-2022
Some kids just dont take the next step - it's no biggie really. Happens to all clubs.
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - Thryleon - 08-23-2022
(08-23-2022, 10:34 PM)Lods link Wrote:You could probably mount an argument that Teague hampered the development of players like Dow by moving them out of the way and giving their tasks to more experienced players.
The change from youth to experience gave us a short term fix but in the long run it wasn't successful, and probably made it difficult for the young ones to get continuity in their development.
Things like that were road blocks in the rebuild.
It made it a 'stop-start-reset' process that now extends to 7 years without a finals appearance.
There's two ways to view that.
1. By taking them out of the coalface and thrusting them into the periphery you force them to really motivate and kick on. Dow has gone from Coalface, to periphery to left right out, and not because Voss doesn't want to play the kids, because he was happy to trust Carroll and Motlop, and forgo more experienced options in those roles.
2. They stalled because they missed the experience of being in the thick of it. Walsh was not exactly held back by any of this though so its hard to mount an argument, and if not for Teague's approach, Matt Kennedy may not have kicked on to become one of our best mids.
I don't buy into a coach holding back a whole groups development. They should be developing anyway, and the coach is there to pull it all together and make a team, a team.
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - Wet Willie - 08-23-2022
The annoying thing about the finals is that we all know we are better than the Bulldogs and Lions, and can hold our own against the Magpies, Demons, Swans, Freo and Tigers... Cats still need some work.
A lot ot clubs will be sleeping better that we aren't there - but we will be!!
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - Baggers - 08-23-2022
(08-23-2022, 09:58 PM)LP link Wrote:There it is, it's called player development and historically we have had next to none!
Instead we tend to pump up tyres, overpay, throw them in the deep end to see who floats, then complain about slow or stalled development.
I think our club still until recently anyway, had a downhill culture, given a choice between the certainty of the hard yards and the chance of a quick fix, we go the quick fix on almost every occasion!
Even BB who is known industry wide as a top player development type coach, almost destroyed the list by trying to accelerate youth development through adversity, what didn't kill them made them stronger, except you break a lot in the process and if you get it wrong you break them all! BB needed somebody to reign him in, but instead we chose to avoid the hard discussion and let him hang himself and almost destroy the list.
But I feel things have changed under Voss, he's stopped the rinse and repeat cycle we've been on for almost two decades, we are actually seeing good football out of guys who most fans and I presume many at the club had written off!
Voss knows the key to success is the performance of those at the bottom of the list, not accolades for those at the top!
Whoa there, Spotted One. Let's not rewrite history, or compare oranges with cheese.
BB was tasked with stepping into the breach after a blow torch was taken to the list to begin probably one of the most ambitious rebuilds in AFL history. I don't believe his attitude was teach through adversity, but rather teach through a thorough education of the basics... then how to handle adversity and grow through it. Adversity was a given, given the inexperience of the list. For the first two years of his tenure, in particular, his ability to not only hold a club together but temper our expectations with reality and hope was first class.
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - laj - 08-23-2022
(08-23-2022, 08:18 PM)madbluboy link Wrote:Breust didn't debut till he was 21, Smith was 23 when he played his first game.
Yes, Issac Smith spent several years playing for North Ballarat when they were winning flags. Was a star with them.
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - Baggers - 08-24-2022
I hope the club (and I'm sure they are) is getting behind Charles and Small Durds in particular. They've been singled out by many, and, yes, they made critical errors but they should not carry the burden of the loss. Beating themselves up, or taking to heart criticisms will serve no useful purpose. They're a coupla quality young men who made strong contributions through the year to us being in the 8... that's what's important now, and everyone learning from mistakes, then acknowledging how much was done right and will be improved upon in 2023.
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - laj - 08-24-2022
(08-23-2022, 11:50 PM)Wet Willie link Wrote:The annoying thing about the finals is that we all know we are better than the Bulldogs and Lions, and can hold our own against the Magpies, Demons, Swans, Freo and Tigers... Cats still need some work.
A lot ot clubs will be sleeping better that we aren't there - but we will be!!
While we had a couple of losses previously those last 2 losses weren't the normal losses. We played some great footy, just choked it up when it mattered. That 3rd qtr, 8 goals to 1, was as good as it gets. If it were, say, round 10, we would have gone on to crush them miserably. The pressure of it being round 23 playing for a finals spot crushed us under pressure.
Take out the choking aspect we'd beat Brisbane, who are equally piss weak mentally come finals, and Collingwood in consecutive finals and play a Prelim. Unfortunately, mental pressure is a big part of finals as well as the physical and something that will be important to work on come pre-season.
Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood - laj - 08-24-2022
(08-24-2022, 12:00 AM)Baggers link Wrote:I hope the club (and I'm sure they are) is getting behind Charles and Small Durds in particular. They've been singled out by many, and, yes, they made critical errors but they should not carry the burden of the loss. Beating themselves up, or taking to heart criticisms will serve no useful purpose. They're a coupla quality young men who made strong contributions through the year to us being in the 8... that's what's important now, and everyone learning from mistakes, then acknowledging how much was done right and will be improved upon in 2023.
We have to get behind those two but at the same time kick the leaders right up the arse for the way we were defensively set up in that last play. That behind the goals vision was something horrendous. Weitering, as a leader, should have been sorting that defence positioning. Needed two more behind the ball once it was a 5 point margin.