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+--- Thread: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain (/thread-2043.html)
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - ItsOurTime - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 03:12 AM)PaulP link Wrote:My guess is that if Goodes was drafted by CFC, he would've lasted 50 games, gone nowhere, and then been delisted or traded. Players are like seeds. Without fertile soil, good climate, care etc. they don't flourish.
![[Image: Game-of-Thrones-Season-4-Episode-6-Theon.jpg]](http://dorkshelf.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads//2014/05/Game-of-Thrones-Season-4-Episode-6-Theon.jpg)
Let the Dark Master's influence wear off. We're not that big a black hole.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - spf - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 03:12 AM)PaulP link Wrote:My guess is that if Goodes was drafted by CFC, he would've lasted 50 games, gone nowhere, and then been delisted or traded. Players are like seeds. Without fertile soil, good climate, care etc. they don't flourish.
Mould doesn't seem to need much encouragement to grow and I think our list is comparable.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - blue4life - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 02:50 AM)Bear link Wrote:I don't acknowledge Stevens (and he ended up with us anyway), Goodes would have been nice... some ordinary footballers selected before both those guys, and Simon Black.
Stevens was top class, but at Carlton he was asked to do it all with very little support, Campo, the last of Ratten and a busted Kouta.
But even without the standouts there were some very good players taken after Massie, Chad Cornes and Tarrant immediately after in fact, Hawthorn managed to snag Vandenberg at 78 who captained them for three seasons.
It's the difference between success and failure, we've just never been any good at identifying talent and the last draft doesn't seem to have been an exception.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - ElCapitan - 06-02-2015
Actually, especially during the Shane O'Sullivan days, our back end spec. picks produced some Ok types ie. Fisher, Hamill.
Where we've really struggled is our front end picks. Most of those have been uninspiring.
I did an experiment with a colleague comparing our drafts from 2000-2013 with St. Kilda's, expecting ours to be far inferior. In fact, given all of the early round picks they had over the early 2000's period, ours isn't that bad in comparison. They had their share of spuds as well.
We then looked at Geelong vs ours and they had a couple of great drafts which built the core of their premiership side. They also had a ton of excellent FS picks, which is where we have had no luck at all, as SOS has been the most notable one, with a truck load of duds, and of course the one guy who would have produced some solid lads ie Sticks, has 3 girls.
Its a good little experiment to do as its so simple to just say our recruiting has been tripe, but its got to be in context.
Honestly, and this will surprise some people, when the draft started, Melbourne were far and away the most successful team early days. In 1987-88 they got some wonderful players (Febey twins in particular).
I agree with quite a few posters here, in that the more picks were get in the top 20-30 the better our strike rate will be as you improve your capacity to get hits in the deeper end of the draft at the top and it gives you a chance to take more risks.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 05:14 AM)ElCapitan link Wrote:Actually, especially during the Shane O'Sullivan days, our back end spec. picks produced some Ok types ie. Fisher, Hamill.
Where we've really struggled is our front end picks. Most of those have been uninspiring.
I did an experiment with a colleague comparing our drafts from 2000-2013 with St. Kilda's, expecting ours to be far inferior. In fact, given all of the early round picks they had over the early 2000's period, ours isn't that bad in comparison. They had their share of spuds as well.
We then looked at Geelong vs ours and they had a couple of great drafts which built the core of their premiership side. They also had a ton of excellent FS picks, which is where we have had no luck at all, as SOS has been the most notable one, with a truck load of duds, and of course the one guy who would have produced some solid lads ie Sticks, has 3 girls.
Its a good little experiment to do as its so simple to just say our recruiting has been tripe, but its got to be in context.
Honestly, and this will surprise some people, when the draft started, Melbourne were far and away the most successful team early days. In 1987-88 they got some wonderful players (Febey twins in particular).
I agree with quite a few posters here, in that the more picks were get in the top 20-30 the better our strike rate will be as you improve your capacity to get hits in the deeper end of the draft at the top and it gives you a chance to take more risks.
Osullivan was a woeful National draft recruiter and could only draft players with a form 4 and cheque book....
2000 was a draft which set us back bigtime IMO.....0/5
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - blue4life - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 05:14 AM)ElCapitan link Wrote:Actually, especially during the Shane O'Sullivan days, our back end spec. picks produced some Ok types ie. Fisher, Hamill.
Fisher and Hamill are a very long time ago, as is Houlihan in the 70's.
Fevola was 38 or so from memory which was a good get, but it could be argued that his talent was outweighed by the trouble he brought to the club.
The only decent player outside the first round still current is Simmo which is a damning indictment on our recruiting.
Throw in first round duds like Lucas, Watson and Bootsma then a succession of high second round flops, Hartlett, Bower, Hampson, third rounders in the 30's, Austin, Browne, Campbell, McCarthy, Edwards etc.
Then of course there's trading 21 for Warnock and 12 for McLean and on current indications 7 for Jaksch will be equally disastrous.
It's a litany of failure and the main reason we are where we are.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - blue4life - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 05:25 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Osullivan was a woeful National draft recruiter and could only draft players with a form 4 and cheque book....
2000 was a draft which set us back bigtime IMO.....0/5
O'Sullivan once told someone I know well that we had a gun coming over from SA the following year, by the name of Scott Freeborn.
True story.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - Mav - 06-02-2015
Remember that Fev was taken as a 17 year old. In that year, every club could take 1 17 year old. The pick 38 thing is therefore a bit misleading. As the other clubs had all taken 17 year olds, we could leave Fev until later (or at least that's my recollection of it). Didn't we pull a swiftly by using our first round pick on an 18 year old? As Baldrick would say, we had a cunning plan, taking Murray Vance. But my recollections may well be off.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - age - 06-02-2015
Gone off topic again :
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - Bear - 06-02-2015
(06-02-2015, 04:51 AM)blue4life link Wrote:Stevens was top class, but at Carlton he was asked to do it all with very little support, Campo, the last of Ratten and a busted Kouta.
But even without the standouts there were some very good players taken after Massie, Chad Cornes and Tarrant immediately after in fact, Hawthorn managed to snag Vandenberg at 78 who captained them for three seasons.
It's the difference between success and failure, we've just never been any good at identifying talent and the last draft doesn't seem to have been an exception.
To clarify, i don't acknowledge Stevens because of his recent disgrace.
Yes... Cornes, Tarrant, Scarlett also (FS, but maybe the other standout) that year. But geez, what a lot of spuds!
Looking at the first 50 players in that draft... reckon Massie would would still be a 1st rounder if you re-ranked it (in the 10-20 range).