(05-17-2020, 12:37 AM)PaulP link Wrote:@ Baggers, Balme didn't just apparate at the Tigers out of thin air . Peggy O'Neal, Gale, and I'm sure others worked as a team to get good people to fill important positions, worked as a team to identify problems, didn't just panic like sh1t clubs do, and made good decisions as a result.

There are some dubious types who like to believe that corporate, capitalist America is the end of history. But many empires have come and gone - Greek, Roman, Ottoman, British empires (to name a few), all had their moment and then they die. America is next.

Chris Hedges believes (and I agree with him) that there is no way out through the election system. If folks want genuine change, we need to use the only bargaining chip we have, which is numbers. Non violent, worldwide, mass civil disobedience that disrupts and cripples the system is the only hope we have of effecting change, and even that may not work. Meaningful change won't come from the inside, you can be quite certain of that.

@ Tragic - nice post. I agree.

(05-17-2020, 04:16 AM)LP link Wrote:The US media can't handle Trump because they assume at some stage they'll get a truthful answer and force him to fall on his sword, Trump knows truth doesn't matter and doesn't care about being called a liar.

(05-17-2020, 08:11 AM)Baggers link Wrote:Your first paragraph - exactly right... Balme may well have put the finishing touches (100th monkey effect?) on what Peggy and Brendan were doing but it was leadership from one or three people who created change. It was the direction and influence of leadership that changed the direction of the Tiggers (ditto Pussycats). Effective leadership can change things, quickly. This is my central point. Effective, visionary and courageous leadership can change the direction of clubs, businesses and governments very quickly.

Just look through corporations and nations that have changed for the better and you'll find new leadership steering a new course and managing the, sometimes significant, changes. The history books are full of such examples. And the reverse is also true... look at the history books for the numerous examples of an individual who steered their club, company or nation to destruction.

As I mentioned earlier, it's not an either/or situation. We minimise poor and dangerous leadership from any individual at our peril - regardless of where it resides. Just look at the dreadful examples the Orangutan is providing to future leaders. The only favour the Orangutan has provided to the US is to show, clearly, the inherit flaws in their political system (that have existed for many years).

(05-17-2020, 09:44 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Mr Shano, all that may well be true, but I would argue that Trump, Reagan, Obama, Biden etc. are not there to lead. They are there to deliver the lines others have prepared for them, act out the role of leader, and distract the population with everything from debased, low level trash talk (Trump), to feel good, social platitudes (most Democrats) and everything in between. You can only lead if you have power to lead, and in my opinion, these types don't have that, which is exactly the way the corporate elites have arranged it.