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+--- Thread: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match (/thread-4636.html)
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - Gointocarlton - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:34 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Point i am trying to make is this.Im tipping a player looking in at Carlton would have said "yep they've done it again, sacked another coach".
Results over 1 year can vary wildly depending on many things, including plain dumb luck. (Look at Brittain, and the year Ratten got sacked)
Results over many years tell a much better story.
A player both at Carlton, and looking in at Carlton see us sacking Bolton after years of failure and think, ok, well he probably had it coming, but they gave him a fair crack. There was no knee-jerk reaction.
A player both at Carlton, and looking in at Carlton see us sacking Teague 1 year after we appointed him after sacking Bolton and see a basketcase or was quick to pull the trigger and thus would be quick to do it again in the future. (Ala Tigers prior to Hardwick).
Constant 'resetting' or rebuilding. Better to jump NOW.
1 year tells you nothing......unless you sack the coach....and then it tells you too much.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - kruddler - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:36 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Given our track record since Brittain, logic would dictate that any blame must lie overwhelmingly with the club.
Are you reading what i am writing?
I've taken issue with the club on this for over a decade. That goes without saying that we have issues at the club.
This does NOT mean Bolton is a supercoach who would win a flag at any other club.......or even a 'good' coach at all.
His W/L record is the worst from a coach who has coached 80 games, for 100 years! There is only 1 worse than him, and he coached his last game in 1920.
No previous coach at Carlton has been that bad, not even during our post salary cap slump. So club issues aside, comparing him with others its just embarrassing.
Even Guy McKenna has a better coaching record than him and Gold Coast are far worse off than us, both off-field and talent wise.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - kruddler - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:41 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Im tipping a player looking in at Carlton would have said "yep they've done it again, sacked another coach".
Followed by, "why would anyone want to play at that basketcase of a club?"
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - PaulP - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:43 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Are you reading what i am writing?
I've taken issue with the club on this for over a decade. That goes without saying that we have issues at the club.
This does NOT mean Bolton is a supercoach who would win a flag at any other club.......or even a 'good' coach at all.
His W/L record is the worst from a coach who has coached 80 games, for 100 years! There is only 1 worse than him, and he coached his last game in 1920.
No previous coach at Carlton has been that bad, not even during our post salary cap slump. So club issues aside, comparing him with others its just embarrassing.
Even Guy McKenna has a better coaching record than him and Gold Coast are far worse off than us, both off-field and talent wise.
I'm perfectly aware of his record, having seen it printed on here 18,000 times. Looking at who has the worst record, second worst, third worst is irrelevant in the context of this discussion. If you showed a person the records of all our post-Brittain coaches and nothing else, the logical conclusion would be that they were all sh1t coaches. And before you complain about me not focussing on Bolton's qualities as a coach, him not being tested at other clubs etc., the circumstantial evidence to compare him favourably with other failed coaches, is in my view, overwhelming.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - PaulP - 03-13-2020
delete
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - kruddler - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 09:05 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I'm perfectly aware of his record, having seen it printed on here 18,000 times. Looking at who has the worst record, second worst, third worst is irrelevant in the context of this discussion. If you showed a person the records of all our post-Brittain coaches and nothing else, the logical conclusion would be that they were all sh1t coaches. And before you complain about me not focussing on Bolton's qualities as a coach, him not being tested at other clubs etc., the circumstantial evidence to compare him favourably with other failed coaches, is in my view, overwhelming.
Compared to Ratten? I don't think so.
Compared to 2 ageing coaches who retired after we ruined them? Thats up for debate.
You love Bolts, we all know that.
I said the moment he was sacked that he will get another coaching gig, at least as an assistant, and was laughed at. Didn't take long did it.
That being said, you simply can NOT ignore his record. You can't.
You can say his record would not have been that bad had he not been at Carlton, and you would find people who agree with you.
But if you think Bolton is blameless in his time at Carlton you are extremely naive.....or Bolton is.
Here is where you say he was just doing as he was told...
Here is the part i say that if he failed to realise that the odd win was important for his team and his career then he is simply not cut out for AFL football.
Whether he was incapable of getting wins, or he thought his job did not require them, then either way he was not up to being an elite AFL coach.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - PaulP - 03-13-2020
Yes, I definitely liked Bolton, much as I liked Ratten. I wasn't so keen about Mick or Pagan, but my personal feelings about any of them are irrelevant. It has nothing to do with ignoring his record, and everything to do with seeing a very clear and troubling pattern of behaviour over 20 years. and seeing all those coaching records in a proper context. If it was only him that sucked, I would be fine with it.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - kruddler - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 10:07 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Yes, I definitely liked Bolton, much as I liked Ratten. I wasn't so keen about Mick or Pagan, but my personal feelings about any of them are irrelevant. It has nothing to do with ignoring his record, and everything to do with seeing a very clear and troubling pattern of behaviour over 20 years. and seeing all those coaching records in a proper context. If it was only him that sucked, I would be fine with it.
There are degrees of 'sucking' and he sucked more than anyone else. Ignore that at your own peril.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - Professer E - 03-13-2020
We didn't ruin Malthouse, he was a shot duck before we hired him. Burned out, finished, whatever, he was cooked and never committed to the task. Seriously, instead of assessing the list etc he went on a book promotional tour. Wasted years.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - PaulP - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 10:11 AM)kruddler link Wrote:There are degrees of 'sucking' and he sucked more than anyone else. Ignore that at your own peril.
Given the power structures, lines of reporting, club direction, decision making etc., you cannot view a coach's record in isolation, nor as a sole indicator of ability.