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+--- Thread: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS (/thread-3940.html)
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - Professer E - 08-07-2018
Makes me laugh about who clubs bring in and the flush of hope offered by recruits in trade week. Mature players with issues rarely suddenly change and dramatically improve....cue Port. Fringe players don't become A-graders.
What's the saying, class is permanent and form is temporary? Buy quality not hope for quality.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - northernblue - 08-07-2018
Of course the flip side to all this is the mature players we traded out in order to try improve the number and quality of what we could bring in... Touhy and Gibbs rarely missed games.
We are not as bad as some think.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - cookie2 - 08-07-2018
(08-07-2018, 03:35 AM)Professer E link Wrote:Makes me laugh about who clubs bring in and the flush of hope offered by recruits in trade week. Mature players with issues rarely suddenly change and dramatically improve....cue Port. Fringe players don't become A-graders.
What's the saying, class is permanent and form is temporary? Buy quality not hope for quality.
Yep. Bringing in the cheapies is a "triumph of hope over experience" as Oscar Wilde once said.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - LP - 08-07-2018
(08-07-2018, 03:35 AM)Professer E link Wrote:Makes me laugh about who clubs bring in and the flush of hope offered by recruits in trade week. Mature players with issues rarely suddenly change and dramatically improve....cue Port. Fringe players don't become A-graders.
What's the saying, class is permanent and form is temporary? Buy quality not hope for quality.
It works both ways I think.
Some fans confuse a period of poor form with a lack of long term class, talking about players like Weitering, Dow, SPS, etc., etc..
Some fans confuse a period of good form with legitimate long term class, players like Casboult, Jones, Kerridge, Graham, etc., etc..
It seems to be related to longevity at the club, like it's a prayer of some sort, "They'll come good", "I told you they'd come good!", etc., etc..!
I worry about some of the blokes we have traded for recently, which category they will eventually fall in!
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - Thryleon - 08-07-2018
And we have come full circle again.
We have gone from trading out to mature aged players to get first round draft picks in, to becoming impatient for those kids to kick on and become players, and wanting to bring in mature aged players, to play at the expense of the kids and calling the club a huge fail.
News flash, we are where we were in 2015, exactly and have done a hell of a lot to renew the list, to setup us up for the NEXT 5 years, not the past 3.
Sure we wanted better out of our players, but the reality is, we got exactly what we were asking for and at very least this time we are going to finish bottom young with promise for the future, rather than old and wondering where our next tier of talent will come from.
As for not setting up properly, I would love to know what everyone's sweet spot of age vs inexperience is. Its very easy to pot the club, but we have been minus Sam Docherty all season, and his backup all have either been injured or not up to it.
As for Cam O'shea, don't look solely at what he has done for our seniors this year. In future, players will come play in the Northern Blues, with the hope to replicate what he managed to do and that was restart his AFL career. He has had plenty of opportunity and not taken it, but others will see it and hope they can do similar, and its for that reason, he should get one more year on the list, as insurance and to play VFL footy.
Sometimes we undervalue what people can do for us, and we as a footy club have been guilty of that sin for the last 20 years.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - laj - 08-07-2018
(08-07-2018, 02:25 AM)crashlander link Wrote:Indeed. It is not wrong to want some experienced players to build a team around, but many of these guys have not performed as we would hope.
Mullett:
Mullett hasn't been a success. Granted he was only selected because we needed an experienced player as a back-up, but he doesn't do what we need on the field.
This one is a definite fail.
Garlett:
Early in the season Garlett looked like being a big win. However, his recent form and effort has been substandard: the intensity has gone, the tackling pressure has gone, the run has gone and the shots on goal have gone. I won't right him off yet, and he cost us next to nothing, but he is going to have to show a lot more to be a long term senior player.
Looking like a fail.
Phillips:
Phillips was a speculative pick as much as anything. He needed to have a consistent time at senior level to see if we was going to be the answer. However, he has struggled to remain on the field. Injuries have really held him back.
At this point his future with us is looking questionable, but that is not the fault of poor recruiting.
Maybe not a fail, but not the success we were hoping for.
Shaw:
Shaw may get another year, but if he does, he will be taking a spot a kid with potential would preferentially occupy. Shaw has not been able to dominate at VFL level, although he has been solid. I am not sure exactly what the club saw in him.
Fail
O'Shea:
O'Shea has really disappointed me. He was so good in the VFL last year that it was a no-brainer to give him a senior chance. Even then, he was selected as a back-up for younger players. However, with our injuries we have needed O'Shea to stand up and he hasn't been able to. Nor has he been able to show anything like the form in the VFL, on the rare occasion that he has been available.
O'Shea does have some positives: he tries to do a job, he works at his game and he is persistent. He is a good role model on the training track. He is just not looking like he has what is required to be a significant contributor at senior level.
Alas, O'Shea has to be a fail.
Alex Silvagni:
Like Phillips, Silvagni was chosen as a bit of speculation to be a role model for our young defenders. In that area he has been a massive success. He has also been a huge success when he has managed to get onto the field. But injuries have simply ruined him. He can't get on the park.
Silvagni may well be offered an off field position, as he is highly respected.
I am glad we selected him, even thought I was sceptical at the start. Injuries have robbed us of exactly the player we have needed.
Pickett:
Pickett was another cheap, speculative pick and one that might work out yet. His best has been extremely promising. But he has not often produced his best, mostly due to injuries. Like a couple of others, I wouldn't discard Pickett yet, but he does need time in the VFL to work on his fitness and touch.
Not a total fail yet, but not looking the way we would have preferred.
Kennedy:
Kennedy is quite a young player. I would think of discarding him yet. However, he does not appear to be the solid bodied mid we need yet. He has been very slow and his kicking has been erratic.
Looks like a fail.
Lang:
Honestly, I don't know why the club were so keen on him. Yes, he has some pace and his kicking for goal is quite good, but he has shown no intensity so far. He appears to have no defensive side at all and does not contribute on the inside. I'm willing to give him some benefit because of his injuries, but I really want to see some intensity and desire.
Looking seriously like a fail.
Lobbe:
Some I disagree with.
Kennedy a fail? Wouldn't think so. He's kicked on quite a bit since his injuries and has allowed Cripps to go forward more. See more next year when he is properly fit.
Phillips was a steak knife pick up so we've done ok in regards to him being a back up ruck.
Lang played decent footy at Geelong. Can't be judged here until he is fit. If he comes here and goes backwards then questions have to asked of us, not him but we'll wait until he is fit.
We actually pick some blokes to mainly play VFL providing experience, size and some leadership. Injuries had some playing more than we would like. Suppose it happens when you're on the bottom as attracting stars are hard work.
Re: 2018 Rd 20: Post Game Calm & Civilized Discussion: Carlton vs GWS - LP - 08-07-2018
The media label us a push over team, an embarrassment apparently, uncompetitive.
Yet week after week the toll mounts for the teams that play against, the toll of post-Carlton injuries just grows and grows!