+- Carlton Supporters Club (http://new.carltonsc.com)
+-- Forum: Social Club (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-6.html)
+--- Forum: Blah-Blah Bar (http://new.carltonsc.com/forum-23.html)
+--- Thread: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (/thread-2312.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - Lods - 03-10-2016
(03-10-2016, 02:57 AM)Mav link Wrote:All Hell may break loose if Trump wins the most delegates leading in to the convention but a contested convention nominates someone else. Trump may well run as an independent Presidential candidate. Yes, he has declared that he won't do this but we know he is quite prepared to do this.
Initially, I thought that would help the Dems. It would split the Rep vote and leave the Dem candidate with the most delegates. But here's the rub - if the Dem candidate doesn't win 270 delegates, namely a majority of delegates, he or she wouldn't win the election.
What happens then? The House of Representatives will choose the President! The representatives from each state will have just 1 vote amongst them and vote on a nominee. As there is currently a gerrymander in place which guarantees the Republicans control of the House until 2020, it matters not whether it's the current House or the one following the forthcoming elections which will decide. Either way, the Republicans will pick the new President.
Trump is likely to pull blue collar democratic votes away from Hillary but perhaps not from Bernie while hobbling the Republican candidate. An unelectable ideologue may end up President.
Add in the fact that many committed Republicans and Democrats are very likely to not vote at all in the general election should their candidate of choice fail to gain the nomination and it becomes even more of a "dog's breakfast".
This is a likely scenario given the polarising and "different to traditional" nature of some of the candidates.
It's impossible to pick at the moment.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - LP - 03-10-2016
(03-10-2016, 03:16 AM)Mav link Wrote:I can't believe Trump is never asked to say how he'd "bring back jobs to America". He talks about bad free-trade deals being to blame. But he's either saying he'd rip up free-trade deals and bring back tariffs and trade quotas or he'd somehow force countries covered by those deals to renegotiate and take it up the proverbial. Unless he used the military to force renegotiations, we're back to protectionist policies. But no one wants to say it.
They have hinted at that, they want the TPP gone and they want to extend the limits put on trade with China and Japan. But the rub is of course that most of the big China Made import bills are products owned by American companies like Apple, he wants those jobs to exist on American soil, but will they be on American wages?
The US press are pretty much lame ducks, they ask questions that are assumed for a 10 year old audience and that is insulting to 10 year olds.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - Mav - 03-10-2016
No, Trump says he's for free trade. He tries to say he'll do better deals. But to do a better deal than one that already exists involves having some negotiating power. Someone trying to renegotiate an existing trade deal has no negotiating power at all.
The problem for the US is that one of its biggest economic resources is intellectual property. That's one of the main things that their trade deals try to protect. Ripping up trade deals throws away those advantages and would alarm many business interests in the US.
Trump has hardly had any involvement in manufacturing and I can't see why anyone would believe he has the remotest interest in promoting manufacturing and blue collar workers. His thing has been property development which obviously doesn't face the same problems. He's not even doing much of that personally, preferring to licence other developers to use his name.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - LP - 03-10-2016
(03-10-2016, 06:23 AM)Mav link Wrote:No, Trump says he's for free trade. He tries to say he'll do better deals. But to do a better deal than one that already exists involves having some negotiating power. Someone trying to renegotiate an existing trade deal has no negotiating power at all.
The problem for the US is that one of its biggest economic resources is intellectual property. That's one of the main things that their trade deals try to protect. Ripping up trade deals throws away those advantages and would alarm many business interests in the US.
Trump has hardly had any involvement in manufacturing and I can't see why anyone would believe he has the remotest interest in promoting manufacturing and blue collar workers. His thing has been property development which obviously doesn't face the same problems. He's not even doing much of that personally, preferring to licence other developers to use his name.
Trump wants IP protected by returning manufacturing onshore, he stated that in the last major debate. He used the Apple employing Americans example during his reply to a question and referred to making stuff onshore as a way of protecting American technology, that's his idea of doing better deals. But privately he employs Mexicans to work in his hotels and leaves locals collecting leftovers at the back door!
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - Mav - 03-10-2016
Jamie Gilt for gun sense - oh, the irony ;D
Good looking but brain dead. She boasts that her need to protect her child trumps safety concerns. But she needs protection from her own child after her 4 year old grabbed a loaded handgun lying around the backseat of her car and shot her in the back while she was driving. As they say, the only way to stop a bad 4 y.o. with a gun is with a good 4 y.o. with a gun.
I can't imagine why strangers would be concerned about a sensible gun activist like her carrying around loaded guns. Like, what could possibly go wrong?
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - Mav - 03-11-2016
(03-09-2016, 08:21 PM)Lods link Wrote:I'm no Trump fan, and it is politics so there's nothing to be done about it (and Donald adds his own fuel to the fire)..... but one of the concerns about this politics of personality and demonising of a candidate in the States is there are no shortage of 'nut jobs' who might look to other options to stop thmeir campaign.I think the greater problem is that Trump is dogwhistling to his fans that they should use violence against the press and protesters. Dogwhistling might be too anaemic a word to describe what he's doing.
So far, there have been 3 outbreaks of serious violence at his rallies, leaving aside frequent manhandling of protesters:
- a press photographer was body-slammed by a secret service agent for the serious offence of stepping out of the pen Trump insists they use to try to photograph the expulsion of protesters.
- a female journalist was grabbed by the arm and almost pushed to the ground by Trump's own campaign manager.
- a Trump supporter king hit a protester who was being ejected by police and Trump and his staff have refused to criticise or comment on that assault
Trump has said at rallies that he would like to punch protesters in the face and called on his supporters to eject them. It is well known that white supremacist groups attend his rallies wearing T-shirts promoting their cause. Is it possible that they'll act? Why is he so keen to prevent the press photographing or seeing these ejections?
Now you have him orchestrating pledges that are reminiscent of Hitler rallies.
It has all the hallmarks of the infamous calls to arms made by Sarah Palin and others leading up to the Tucson shootings at a Gabby Giffords rally in a shopping centre car park. Giffords, a congressional Dem, was shot in the head and left with a permanent disability while 6 others, including a Federal court judge, were killed. Palin had run ads featuring crosshairs and calling for a reload. Of course, conservatives say this had nothing to do with what happened, just as Trump would say he was just making a whimsical comment as Henry II had once done.
The funny thing is that Trump and his supporters would have no doubt that the inflammatory rhetoric of radical Imans causes their followers to engage in terrorism.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - Lods - 03-11-2016
No doubt there are aspects of Trumps campaign that are inflamatory and also likely to lead to violent acts...(although I do think comparing his pledge to a Hitler salute is drawing a pretty long bow.
)I guess the point here is of all the candidates which one is most likely to invoke the passions that would see them as a target of a nut case.
Trump (and some of it is of his own making) is the one who would most likely touch that nerve.....and it would not necessarily come from left or right, Republican or Democrat. There are many on his own side who dislike where the results are heading.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - Mav - 03-11-2016
The most dangerous would-be terrorists in the US are white supremacists and right-wing extremists. Trump has little to fear from them.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - Lods - 03-11-2016
(03-11-2016, 02:19 AM)Mav link Wrote:The most dangerous would-be terrorists in the US are white supremacists and right-wing extremists. Trump has little to fear from them.
Most dangerous yes, but not the only group.
If you start comparing him to Hitler or a dictator you're talking the politics of extremism.
It's that type of language that places "fear of the possibilities" in the minds of people....and fearful people can react in the same way as hateful folk.
Re: US Presidential Election 2016 - Mav - 03-11-2016
If it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck ...