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+--- Thread: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match (/thread-4636.html)
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - kruddler - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 07:25 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Bolton had plenty of love from the players especially Cripps, Doc etc and nothing changed when he got fired out the door.
Players tend to adapt to the new situation and you often get that sugar hit of wins that overcomes resentment.
Teague forced his appointment by weight of results, Judd didnt want him but the results stacked up forcing the club to take on a L plate coach, but thats on the proviso he keeps delivering IMO, dont think injuries will be factored in.
Does depend on the CoVid19 and how the season is structured though, if its a badly interrupted season then all coaches would get a free pass for the year IMO.
The difference with Bolton is he had years with the players.
Teague would have had 1 year......different circumstances.
Whether you loved or hated Bolton, it was hard to argue that he was hard done by and we pulled the trigger too soon.
If we do the same with Teague after just 1 year, it would be a lot harder to justify his sacking than it was Bolton.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - WASurfer - 03-13-2020
I think sheer weight of numbers cost Bolton in the end. The losses kept piling up and as far as position on the ladder, we weren't improving one bit...regardless of whether he was good or not, those sort of results have a finite life and supporters, sponsors, members, board etc decide enough is enough. Teague won't have pressure on him this year but there needs to be improvement in players who've been there 3-5 years.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - PaulP - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 07:34 AM)kruddler link Wrote:..................
Whether you loved or hated Bolton, it was hard to argue that he was hard done by and we pulled the trigger too soon.
..............
Nonsense. Things were never settled during Bolton's era. 50 player changes, change of CEO, change of List Manager, change of High Performance Manager, change of assistant coaches, illness and subsequent passing of his dad etc.
Echoing the words of one of our other members (who doesn't post much anymore), Bolton has gone onto a senior position at the most successful and ruthless club of recent times. A club with a culture that is completely foreign to Carlton, and whilst the current board and others with deep pockets continue to rule the roost, that culture will remain foreign.
It's not about the coach. Teague will benefit from the hard work done by his predecessors, and will also benefit from a more settled club, a change of focus, and the inclusion of blokes like Docherty and Williamson. Under such circumstances, a rise up the ladder is virtually a given. But we will never be more than a mid table team until the big issues above the coach are addressed.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - kruddler - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:00 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Nonsense. Things were never settled during Bolton's era. 50 player changes, change of CEO, change of List Manager, change of High Performance Manager, change of assistant coaches.
Echoing the words of one of our other members (who doesn't post much anymore), Bolton has gone onto a senior position at the most successful and ruthless club of recent times. A club with a culture that is completely foreign to Carlton, and whilst the current board and others with deep pockets continue to rule the roost, that culture will remain foreign.
It's not about the coach. Teague will benefit from the hard work done by his predecessors, and will also benefit from a more settled club, a change of focus, and the inclusion of blokes like Docherty and Williamson. Under such circumstances, a rise up the ladder is virtually a given. But we will never be more than a mid table team until the big issues above the coach are addressed.
I said it was hard....not impossible.
My issue with your argument is that almost none of it factors in how Bolton was going as a coach.
Almost everything points to past wrongs by the club.....which i agree with....but that does not make Bolton immune from the blow torch.
It is not either/or, it can be both.....and it was.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - Gointocarlton - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 07:12 AM)kruddler link Wrote:There would be a mass player exodus if that occured. Not so much because Ross was brought in, but because Teague was fired.You'd would have said the same about Bolton, players moved on immediately, always have, always will.
He needs at least 2021 to make sure 2020 was not 'the norm' if it goes badly. We are already behind the 8-ball with Curnow/McKay forward line duo out indefinitely.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - PaulP - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:13 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I said it was hard....not impossible.
My issue with your argument is that almost none of it factors in how Bolton was going as a coach.
Almost everything points to past wrongs by the club.....which i agree with....but that does not make Bolton immune from the blow torch.
It is not either/or, it can be both.....and it was.
You can take the best operators, proven performers in other organisations (Pagan, Malthouse), stick them in a dysfunctional joint, and they will struggle, as history proves. If you don't have professionalism around you, if you're not united from top to bottom, if the people at the top just don't get it, then you will never get to where you want to go. The coach can only be as good as they're allowed to be. They are not the top dog - heck, they're not even top dog in their own department.
Bloody hell, Worsfold spelled it out as plain as day in the post match after the Bombers game, and our craven mob still didn't get it.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - kruddler - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:23 AM)PaulP link Wrote:You can take the best operators, proven performers in other organisations (Pagan, Malthouse), stick them in a dysfunctional joint, and they will struggle, as history proves. If you don't have professionalism around you, if you're not united from top to bottom, if the people at the top just don't get it, then you will never get to where you want to go. The coach can only be as good as they're allowed to be. They are not the top dog - heck, they're not even top dog in their own department.
Bloody hell, Worsfold spelled it out as plain as day in the post match after the Bombers game, and our craven mob still didn't get it.
...again....that doesn't mean Bolton is a good coach and one we should have kept. That just means others probably would've failed too.
I'm not arguing that point. I acknowledge it and have championed it for over a decade myself.
You are refusing to even acknowledge that perhaps some of the blame sits with him too.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - Gointocarlton - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:13 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I said it was hard....not impossible.Bolton coached within the guidelines and parameters set by those above him and in accordance with a complete list rebuild. All of a sudden, the goal posts and KPIs changed and he was a dead man walking. The spectre of senior coaches being available also loomed over the top and played a part in his demise/dismissal, just as the spectre of Malthouse loomed over Ratts. As many have said time and time again, "rinse and repeat". It should be our slogan as its the only mantra our club truly lives by (without fail).
My issue with your argument is that almost none of it factors in how Bolton was going as a coach.
Almost everything points to past wrongs by the club.....which i agree with....but that does not make Bolton immune from the blow torch.
It is not either/or, it can be both.....and it was.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - kruddler - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:20 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:You'd would have said the same about Bolton, players moved on immediately, always have, always will.
Point i am trying to make is this.
Results over 1 year can vary wildly depending on many things, including plain dumb luck. (Look at Brittain, and the year Ratten got sacked)
Results over many years tell a much better story.
A player both at Carlton, and looking in at Carlton see us sacking Bolton after years of failure and think, ok, well he probably had it coming, but they gave him a fair crack. There was no knee-jerk reaction.
A player both at Carlton, and looking in at Carlton see us sacking Teague 1 year after we appointed him after sacking Bolton and see a basketcase or was quick to pull the trigger and thus would be quick to do it again in the future. (Ala Tigers prior to Hardwick).
Constant 'resetting' or rebuilding. Better to jump NOW.
1 year tells you nothing......unless you sack the coach....and then it tells you too much.
Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match - PaulP - 03-13-2020
(03-13-2020, 08:27 AM)kruddler link Wrote:...again....that doesn't mean Bolton is a good coach and one we should have kept. That just means others probably would've failed too.
I'm not arguing that point. I acknowledge it and have championed it for over a decade myself.
You are refusing to even acknowledge that perhaps some of the blame sits with him too.
Given our track record since Brittain, logic would dictate that any blame must lie overwhelmingly with the club.