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+--- Thread: Reset Rants (/thread-3761.html)
Re: Reset Rants - Lods - 05-02-2018
(05-02-2018, 05:51 AM)Raydan link Wrote:Very hard to rebuild when the first 2 years we lost 2 first round, 2 second round and a priority pick.
To rebuild through the draft you have to trade away players to get picks, something we have never done in fact we've done the opposite, traded away picks to get players.
This is the first time that Carlton have built their team through the draft while trading in young talent as well.
It was a rebuild, just not through the draft initially....
Pagan moved on the older players and replaced them with 'average' mid-aged players from other clubs.
Probably the thinking was that they were a bit above average which in most cases turned out not to be the case.
That's not completely unlike what we've done with some of the players we've picked up from other clubs.
The difference this time is the youth approach.
While it's easy to look back in hindsight and say what a disaster it was at the time, there was genuine hope a bounce back from the draft penalties would only take a few years.
The mid-age group were merely a stop-gap until we were again able to hit the draft early.
At that point, other than number one picks, it became more about poor choices and poor development.
That's where we need to be better this time.
Re: Reset Rants - madbluboy - 05-02-2018
2004-2008 had numerous top picks. How was that not a rebuild?
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 05-02-2018
There's no clear definition as to what actually constitutes a rebuild/reset etc. My view is that it involves a whole-of-club approach, from top to toe, across all departments, all teams etc. A stated aim wrt culture, belief, values that is hopefully rigorously adhered to and followed through. A very particular way of looking at a footy club as a genuine holistic entity.
If you're just going through the motions, and taking your allotted 1str rounder, 2nd rounder etc. I'm not sure that's a rebuild. And if you happen to be crap for a few years, and get lots of 1st rounders, taking the "best available", I'm not sure that's a rebuild. Changing coaches every 30 seconds IMO resets the rebuild.
Re: Reset Rants - Lods - 05-02-2018
(05-02-2018, 07:38 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:2004-2008 had numerous top picks. How was that not a rebuild?
Of course it was a rebuild...and two coaches later that rebuild resulted in finals appearances.
We started with a mid-aged acquisition, topped it up with early picks and then finished it off by adding a marquee player.
A rebuild.
The real point of difference this time , and something we didn't do that time, is that this time we're trading players for earlier picks in the draft.
It's just a different kind of rebuild
Re: Reset Rants - Gointocarlton - 05-02-2018
(05-02-2018, 07:38 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:2004-2008 had numerous top picks. How was that not a rebuild?And we fecked up nearly every one of them
Re: Reset Rants - Barbs - 05-02-2018
I don't think the issue is should the club be sticking to a rebuild because the answer is an unequivocal yes.
The issue isn't even should we be doing better this year than last because it should be obvious that losing Docherty after trading Gibbs would be a set back.
The issue is whether the rebuild given these set backs is meeting expectation and if not the question must be asked if the brains trust behind it (coaches, selectors and development crew) are taking the playing group on the right path.
IMHO, we are underperforming in this rebuild. Young players seem to be under developed (particularly in comparison to their draft cohort), skills are not improving and our game plan seems to confusing players. That game plan seems to treat defence and attack as two separate things and as a result we either set up so defensively we can't score or try so hard to attack that we can't defend (a big problem when our skill deficiencies let us down so much) Again, it's just my opinion but we need to find the middle ground and do both by getting players to run both ways. I don't see this or steps forwards it.
I don't know if this means a change in the coaching panel. I see everyone's points about the fallout if Bolton is dumped but something has to change to get us back on the right rebuild path. I do think we have the right young players to develop but question how we're doing in that task of developing them.
(Ps I still vote for adding one or two marquee free agents this year. I like the idea of our young group playing with and learning from some players like Sloane and GC's Lynch)
Here endeth my rant.
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 05-02-2018
The impression I get from reading these recent posts is that it's a case of "let's get good players into the men's seniors, start winning games of footy, and the rest will look after itself." I don't think that's the beginning and end point for Bolton and Co.
In my view, a properly reset club would not have had the salary cap saga. A properly reset club would not have had a player revolt under Pagan, with the tail wagging the dog, or at least would have sorted it quickly and behind closed doors. A properly reset club would not have had the same recruiting team in place for far too long, despite delivering poor results. A properly reset club would not have had a situation under Ratten where the GM of Football (Icke) and Ratts had a sh1t relationship, ditto Ratts and Justin Cordy, both of which were allowed to fester when they should have been sorted out quickly. A properly reset club would not have had the Malthouse package deal / lazy rebuild, where you get Mick, plus Daisy, plus Buttifant etc. You do your due diligence and check each individual properly, not just because some senior person e.g the coach wants them.
Ask yourselves this - could you see the Hawks being dragged down by these types of situations ? Could you genuinely see these situations developing at the Swans ?
Re: Reset Rants - Lods - 05-02-2018
But that's not the domain of Bolton, Paul.
That's club board dynamics and football boards are political entities.
Change at that level is subject to the whims of members and if members are behind a board they'll stay there.
If however discontent arises, often through continued lack of success, a board becomes vulnerable.
It's not something you can control.
While members are convinced of the direction the club has chosen you'll have stability...when someone pokes his/her head up and says they can do better that's when you'll have a focus for any discontent.
When you have division that's when your trouble will start.
Stability and success are the key components...if either is lacking then you have a problem.
(05-02-2018, 09:47 AM)PaulP link Wrote:Ask yourselves this - could you see the Hawks being dragged down by these types of situations ? Could you genuinely see these situations developing at the Swans ?
I remember a time when that was Carlton...and I remember a time when the Swans were a basket case.
Re: Reset Rants - Shakin77 - 05-02-2018
(05-02-2018, 07:38 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:2004-2008 had numerous top picks. How was that not a rebuild?
Traded out a total of 0 players for picks during that period.
Re: Reset Rants - PaulP - 05-02-2018
(05-02-2018, 10:10 AM)Lods link Wrote:But that's not the domain of Bolton, Paul.
That's club board dynamics and football boards are political entities.
Change at that level is subject to the whims of members and if members are behind a board they'll stay there.
If however discontent arises, often through continued lack of success, a board becomes vulnerable.
It's not something you can control.
While members are convinced of the direction the club has chosen you'll have stability...when someone pokes his/her head up and says they can do better that's when you'll have a focus for any discontent.
When you have division that's when your trouble will start.
Stability and success are the key components...if either is lacking then you have a problem.
To me, this is part of the problem, this attitude of "you look after your domain, and I'll like after mine." Every bit of the club has to work together, and all have to be working properly towards a common goal, with a common set of values. Bolton is not responsible for everything, but he is the change agent, and the prime mover behind setting values he's learned at the Hawks.
It's a domino thing. One bit of the club affects all the others in some small or significant way.