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+--- Thread: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart (/thread-3711.html)
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - Lods - 04-13-2018
(04-13-2018, 08:05 AM)Jack Burton link Wrote:Re Dow's kicking, he seems to be rushed at the moment, still only 3 games in and he is getting used to the speed of the game, I think as he starts to feel more comfortable at AFl level he will be more composed and will kick the ball better than what we have seen so far
His three game stats are better than many debutantes...including Cripps.
Kade Simpson had donuts.
Time!
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - Lods - 04-13-2018
(04-13-2018, 08:12 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Height is only a variable. My 'argument' has been simplified to too many talls.
In reality, the argument is generally that the opposition have too many quick smalls. A subtle difference. One that highlights the fact that some of our talls, specifically Weitering, cannot mind one of the many smalls that we often come up against....and even some of the quicker talls. Basically, we usually need more 'small forward minders' in our side.
Weiterings lack of acceleration, speed and agility is more of a factor than his height and i have stressed that previously.
FWIW, this week i think the matchups work a bit better for Weitering. Would still have preferred Marchbank in the side instead of Oshea. Which BTW is listed as 197, not 193 as quoted earlier. Meaning his matchup with Atley has 8cm difference, which in itself isn't a huge issue, but almost always means that Atley will be quicker and more agile as a result. I know Oshea can play smaller than his size suggests, but have not had a look at that under the microscope of AFL footy much as yet.
Yep
....but speed is also only another variable.
Our blokes being outbodied, pushed off the ball, tackles broken etc means we're also lightbodied and 'weak' in comparison to many of the opposition.
It's another area where Weitering and others are struggling at the moment.
That may need another year or two of physical development....or it might never come!
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - DJC - 04-13-2018
(04-13-2018, 08:12 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Height is only a variable. My 'argument' has been simplified to too many talls.
In reality, the argument is generally that the opposition have too many quick smalls. A subtle difference. One that highlights the fact that some of our talls, specifically Weitering, cannot mind one of the many smalls that we often come up against....and even some of the quicker talls. Basically, we usually need more 'small forward minders' in our side.
Weiterings lack of acceleration, speed and agility is more of a factor than his height and i have stressed that previously.
FWIW, this week i think the matchups work a bit better for Weitering. Would still have preferred Marchbank in the side instead of Oshea. Which BTW is listed as 197, not 193 as quoted earlier. Meaning his matchup with Atley has 8cm difference, which in itself isn't a huge issue, but almost always means that Atley will be quicker and more agile as a result. I know Oshea can play smaller than his size suggests, but have not had a look at that under the microscope of AFL footy much as yet.
O’Shea’s height is listed as 193cm on the club website, FootyWire, Wikipedia and in an article about his delisting by Port. However, I have seen the erroneous 197cm height mentioned from time to time.
Oppositions having too many quick smalls isn’t a problem for the defence, it’s all over the ground. Perhaps one of our most telling problems is the lack of a small forward able to run down defenders and win free kicks inside 50. Our lack of pace in the midfield enables opposition players to run through the corridor and deliver to their forwards’ advantage. The height/speed of our defenders is largely irrelevant when the ball comes in so quickly ... and it usually happens as a result of a shallow, misdirected forward 50 entry.
I’m not convinced that our defence is too tall/slow but there are other issues, such as lack of experienced midfielders (I didn’t think we’d miss Gibbs as much), that are more critical.
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - kruddler - 04-13-2018
(04-13-2018, 08:45 AM)DJC link Wrote:I’m not convinced that our defence is too tall/slow but there are other issues, such as lack of experienced midfielders (I didn’t think we’d miss Gibbs as much), that are more critical.
I'm not saying our midfield doesn't have problems, they do.
Our forwards have problems too.
Both of the above are basically due to the fact we have a lack of options in those areas.
The reason i talk about our backline is because unlike the other 2 areas, our problem is picking a balanced backline from the abundance of defenders we have on our list. Its a different issue to the other areas.
(04-13-2018, 08:18 AM)Lods link Wrote:Yep
....but speed is also only another variable.
Our blokes being outbodied, pushed off the ball, tackles broken etc means we're also lightbodied and 'weak' in comparison to many of the opposition.
It's another area where Weitering and others are struggling at the moment.
That may need another year or two of physical development....or it might never come!
Yes, speed is another variable.
As i've said, its about matchups. More often than not its height and/or speed that means we don't have the right players/matchups. I'd argue that those 2 are key factors for picking a backline.
If you are too small to spoil a tall forward, it doesn't matter how quick you are.
If you are too slow to keep up with an opponent leading/running with the ball, it doesn't matter how tall you are.
Sure, other areas help define ideal matchups, as you've mentioned, but if we can't get the basics right, what hope do we have?
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - Lods - 04-13-2018
No real argument Kruds other than I'd give equal weight to "body on body" strength.
It's what made Stephen Silvagni so hard to play on.
While not super huge in the upper body he had great lower body power.
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - kruddler - 04-13-2018
(04-13-2018, 10:02 AM)Lods link Wrote:No real argument Kruds other than I'd give equal weight to "body on body" strength.
It's what made Stephen Silvagni so hard to play on.
While not super huge in the upper body he had great lower body power.
SOS's thighs doubled in size over his career to serve that very purpose...and he was the best at it.
While there is still a place in todays game for being good body on body, its relevance compared to SOSs era is reduced to next to nothing for the modern day players.
Simply the amount of contests where that becomes useful is a lot less than it was previously IMO.
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - Lods - 04-13-2018
(04-13-2018, 10:32 AM)kruddler link Wrote:SOS's thighs doubled in size over his career to serve that very purpose...and he was the best at it.
While there is still a place in todays game for being good body on body, its relevance compared to SOSs era is reduced to next to nothing for the modern day players.
Simply the amount of contests where that becomes useful is a lot less than it was previously IMO.
I've seen us beaten in those body on body contests a few times in the last couple of weeks
Your whipping boy Weitering a couple of times has been man handled.
Opposition teams waltz through our tackles.
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - kruddler - 04-14-2018
(04-13-2018, 11:17 AM)Lods link Wrote:I've seen us beaten in those body on body contests a few times in the last couple of weeks
Your whipping boy Weitering a couple of times has been man handled.
Opposition teams waltz through our tackles.
a few times in a couple of weeks? Is that it? Sos used to get in those contests a few times each quarter, every quarter, every week.
Thats my point. Its a skill that can not be utilised as much as it could in the past.
I'm not dismissing it as useful, but think about it this way.
How many forwards kick goals from set shots off a lead.
How many forwards kick goals from pack marks.
....joe the goose..
...free kicks...
vs
How many forwards kick goals from winning a 1 on 1 wrestle with their opponent?
Compare that to 2 decades ago.
Big difference.
Yes, tackling is another issue but how many times do you see a Fraser Brown vs Wellman tackle in a game and how many times do you see a chase down tackle from behind in a game?
The latter is far more frequent and requires speed. Hence why it is ranked above almost all else in todays game.
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - Gointocarlton - 04-14-2018
Can we channel abit of this spirit tonight please?
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2018-04-13/classic-matches-kangaroos
Re: 2018 Rd 4: Carlton vs North Melbourne in Hobart - Lods - 04-14-2018
(04-14-2018, 12:55 AM)kruddler link Wrote:a few times in a couple of weeks? Is that it? Sos used to get in those contests a few times each quarter, every quarter, every week.
Thats my point. Its a skill that can not be utilised as much as it could in the past.
I'm not dismissing it as useful, but think about it this way.
How many forwards kick goals from set shots off a lead.
How many forwards kick goals from pack marks.
....joe the goose..
...free kicks...
vs
How many forwards kick goals from winning a 1 on 1 wrestle with their opponent?
Compare that to 2 decades ago.
Big difference.
Yes, tackling is another issue but how many times do you see a Fraser Brown vs Wellman tackle in a game and how many times do you see a chase down tackle from behind in a game?
The latter is far more frequent and requires speed. Hence why it is ranked above almost all else in todays game.
My point is that we rarely win these contests.
Our tackles are easily brushed aside and apart from a couple of players (Curnow, Cripps) we rarely break tackles.
We are a physically weak side...part of that is youth...and strength is a variable that can be improved significantly from age 18 to 22..whereas speed is pretty much settled.
While in the current game the trend may be for speed (and I'm not discounting that) we know trends change.
But really ...How many of these rely on speed?
Quote:How many forwards kick goals from set shots off a lead.
How many forwards kick goals from pack marks.
....joe the goose..
...free kicks...
Probably the player on the lead...but that's more about reaction time than speed.