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+--- Thread: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) (/thread-1953.html)
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - PassIt2Carrots - 05-02-2015
Pagan. FFS. No wonder he wants to keep Malthouse.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - ItsOurTime - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 08:54 AM)blue4life link Wrote:Luckily for Geelong supporters their club didn't follow that formula with Bomber Thompson.
5th in his first year then 12th, 9th and 12th in his next three, two years of finals then 10th in 2006.
The rest is history, it took him 8 years to win the flag but it was worth the wait, they won three.
Bomber finished 10th in 2006 with 10 wins and a draw. Took over a team which finished 12th and 11th (with 9 and 10 wins) , the two years before his appointment and took them to 5th the following year with 12 wins and a draw.
We'll be fighting out bottom 2, hardly the same. Infact, we'll all be patting Mick on the back and offering him 3 years if he manages anything like Bomber's 2006 season, not talking about sacking him.
Quote:We have structures?
God knows what Swan was doing so probably not.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - Thryleon - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 08:10 AM)blue4life link Wrote:There's no point going over it, what's done is done and neither of us will change our mind.
I remember going to a game when Pagan was coach, there were 16,000 of us hardy souls at the MCG to watch us line up Ian Prendergast against Matthew Pavlich, Pavlich kicked 3 in the first 10 minutes and ended up with 9.
That was fun, but I didn't blame Pagan when we lost the match.
Agreed, and the biggest problem about sacking Pagan was the cultural issue of the tail wagging the dog.
Bryce Gibbs learnt that lesson well it seems.
Has repeated it twice and seems to be teaching his mates too.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - blue4life - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 09:20 AM)PassIt2Carrots link Wrote:Pagan. FFS. No wonder he wants to keep Malthouse.
Pagan had North in the finals for 12 consecutive seasons and won two flags, at a club with no money, bugger all members and crap facilities, yet he somehow lost all his ability as a leader of men the minute he walked in the door at Princes Park.
Odd, to say the very least.
I've had a gutfull of sacking coaches and looking for the next quick fix, it's got nothing to do with Malthouse in fact I've never particularly liked the bloke.
If we sack Malthouse we're officially a basket case, beyond help.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - blue4life - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 09:39 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Agreed, and the biggest problem about sacking Pagan was the cultural issue of the tail wagging the dog.
Bryce Gibbs learnt that lesson well it seems.
Has repeated it twice and seems to be teaching his mates too.
Gibbs cops way too much flak in my opinion, he's a bloody good footballer but not the out and out champion we all hoped for.
We should get a bit of a grip though, last night's performance was bad but we're an average team even with a full list and we were missing 5 players who are walk up starts, 3 of them are probably in our best 6 or 8.
If we can get all of them back and playing we'll win a fair few games as the season goes on.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - laj - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 09:47 AM)blue4life link Wrote:Pagan had North in the finals for 12 consecutive seasons and won two flags, at a club with no money, bugger all members and crap facilities, yet he somehow lost all his ability as a leader of men the minute he walked in the door at Princes Park.o
Odd, to say the very least.
I've had a gutfull of sacking coaches and looking for the next quick fix, it's got nothing to do with Malthouse in fact I've never particularly liked the bloke.
If we sack Malthouse we're officially a basket case, beyond help.
With old coaches, especially Pagan, the game passes them by. By the time he got to us he was trying to play a by-gone game plan. He was still running 30 interchanges when everyone else was running 100. As for Mick, why play so many behind the ball and have such a negative game plan when he's seen time and again we do better when we are allowed to get numbers forward and run, as happened late last year. Not mention other games previous years where we've been a mile behind where he's changed the played, allowed us to run and we've fought back quickly. When he coaches like that he does a good job but why no do it all the time if you're a smart coach. Terrible last night to see players run to the middle and have no-one there or ahead of them to pass to by hand or foot. A coach worth his weight in salt coaches a side to their strengths, not their weaknesses. It why Ratten did well. While it wasn't totally flawless he coached the side to their strengths and got results from not necessarily a brilliant list. He was stiff to be chopped if you want to talk about changing coaches.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - Juddkreuzer - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 09:47 AM)blue4life link Wrote:.
If we sack Malthouse we're officially a basket case, beyond help.
That's already the case whether we sack MM or not. Our recruiting of recent times has left us with a team that would struggle against the Carlton teams post salary cap sanctions. We are in for a Game of Thrones style winter.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - Professer E - 05-02-2015
I think that all parties at the club are at fault and are the cause of our predicament. All need to take a bloody hard look at themselves and all need to start pulling on the same rope... a rope connected to the concept that this club needs to rebuild everything form the ground up.
1. The players. Well we have the list we have because our list management, recruiting and development are back in the 1960's, so any improvement in those areas will translate directly into better onfield results. However, the players themselves have to share the burden because of a variable and sporadic work rate, which everybody agrees has been a significant issue for far too long. Too many blokes have, as Mr Judd succinctly put in this morning, been satisfied with just getting a game and have not been 100% committed to winning at all costs... "paying the price" as he put it.
2. Selection. Too frequently we make mystifying and unjustifiable selections and don't put a side on the park that gives us a chance of winning - too many games are lost on Thursday night. Too frequently we don't pick balanced sides, or sides with gaping deficiencies that the opposition exploit. We do not appear to do our homework on the opposition e.g. tagging DeLedio is the first thing 16 other clubs do against Richmond.
3. Coaching. Includes development, instruction and game plan IMO. Slow ball movement is death in football, and the good sides own the corridor... or you employ a defensive gameplan based upon team defence and manic defensive pressure. We do neither... yet play everybody behind the ball and seem to rely upon slow ball movement outside the corridor with inside 50 invariably a bomb to a key forward. Why Mick continues with this plan, which clearly doesn't work, is bewildering.
So quite frankly;
1. recruiting and development must improve (not really possible until EOS).
2. The wheat needs to be sorted from the chaff re the playing list - either you're in and committed or you can leave. That said, we must commit to players that buy in.
3. I'm happy for Mick to continue but on the condition that he starts rebuilding the list and starts developing a realistic gameplan suited to modern football, not 1985. Wins are immaterial right now - its how (and who) they play between now and the end of the year that should dictate Mick's future. And this should be communicated to all parties.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - ElwoodBlues1 - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 07:38 AM)Rational_Expectations link Wrote:I think some posters have gone early on Whiley. I'm prepared to give the kid a bit more time.
x2....Was playing at VFL pace and looked slow, Pendlebury is probably the best mid in the comp at the minute given Ablett is out and it was a tough ask coming in cold.
Worst thing we can do is drop him, I might have tempted to play him off half back after half time and let him take a lesser opponent to build some confidence...
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - Mantis - 05-02-2015
Elwood, that would be an excellent option. Playing him at half back flank, and helping to get the ball out of defence. While Whiley wasn't great, he did start to get the ball and was getting better. He needs a few games to get a feel for the pace of the game for certain.