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+--- Thread: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) (/thread-1953.html)
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - LP - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 07:36 AM)blue4life link Wrote:No cheap shot mate, you've made no secret of your wish to see Malthouse gone and it colours your judgement, if you can't see it it's not my problem.
Sacking Pagan was the biggest mistake we've made in the last decade, he was a proven coach who was proven as a developer of young players with the ability to build a team from the ground up.
He took over a club that was broke with a shot list then was handed a two year ban from the first two rounds of the draft, the results he achieved in 2003 under those circumstances were a minor miracle.
I think we were weaker when we sacked Ratten, who showed us just how far past it Pagan was, yet the minute Ratten wobbled we wound back the clock and purchased the fixer!
We are well and truly fixed now, no doubt about it!
(05-02-2015, 07:38 AM)Rational_Expectations link Wrote:I think some posters have gone early on Whiley. I'm prepared to give the kid a bit more time.
Agreed, the kid has something and was sorely let down by senior players around him last night! What a shizen game to début in, when so many of your seniors turned to butter!
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - cookie2 - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 07:38 AM)Rational_Expectations link Wrote:I think some posters have gone early on Whiley. I'm prepared to give the kid a bit more time.
Agree. He came into the side in the worst imaginable circumstances. Should be allowed to find his feet in the NBs. In hindsight, Graham would have been a better option even if his form had been unspectacular.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - Lods - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 07:38 AM)Rational_Expectations link Wrote:I think some posters have gone early on Whiley. I'm prepared to give the kid a bit more time.
Yep
He struggled with the pace of the game and got caught a couple of times.
That probably dented his confidence a bit.
Then that debacle was happening all around him so it was a case of every man for himself.
Not an ideal situation to work in with your team-mates.
Give him another go, it's not like we have a lot to lose...if it goes pear shaped again back to the VFL for a spell
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - laj - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 07:36 AM)blue4life link Wrote:No cheap shot mate, you've made no secret of your wish to see Malthouse gone and it colours your judgement, if you can't see it it's not my problem.
Sacking Pagan was the biggest mistake we've made in the last decade, he was a proven coach who was proven as a developer of young players with the ability to build a team from the ground up.
He took over a club that was broke with a shot list then was handed a two year ban from the first two rounds of the draft, the results he achieved in 2004 under those circumstances were a minor miracle.
But football supporters are fickle and we had a weak kneed board, so rather than tough it out we sacked him and put a bloke in his place with almost zero experience to keep the members happy, he was the man who was going to bring back the Carlton swagger if my memory serves me correctly.
The swagger never arrived and five years of lacklustre results later we sacked him to employ the Messiah, and if history is any guide we'll cave in again and sack the Messiah as well, rinse and repeat.
We just don't have the cojones to stick it out, we're always chasing the miracle fix and harking back to the old days when we could buy flags, but those days are long gone and they won't be back.
Don't worry about who the coach is, the club and its supporters need to grow a pair and see things through for a change, that or accept the fact that we'll never be a power again.
No offence but anyone that thinks sacking Pagan was the worst thing we did is, well, struggling. How many spoons, 100pt defeats, 10 goal defeats, record losses could you stomach. It's unbelievable that anyone with any knowledge of the game could think that sacking Pagan was a bad move. No list is ever that bad to go as badly as we did under him. Soon as Ratten came in we went up the ladder and played finals 2 years later, with what was probably an average list too. that alone proved getting rid of Pagan was a good move.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - blue4life - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 07:42 AM)LP link Wrote:I think we were weaker when we sacked Ratten, who showed us just how far past it Pagan was, yet the minute Ratten wobbled we wound back the clock and purchased the fixer!
We are well and truly fixed now, no doubt about it!
It's a cumulative effect, a decade of poor administration, poor recruiting, members baying for blood and wealthy sponsors with too much clout.
Sacking Malthouse will only confirm our status as a rabble, but sack him we almost certainly will.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - crashlander - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 07:45 AM)Lods link Wrote:YepI thought Whiley struggled with the pace of the game. But he was not the first of our recent recruits to struggle early. I'd give him a few more chances yet before I'd remove him from our future.
He struggled with the pace of the game and got caught a couple of times.
That probably dented his confidence a bit.
Then that debacle was happening all around him so it was a case of every man for himself.
Not an ideal situation to work in with your team-mates.
Give him another go, it's not like we have a lot to lose...if it goes pear shaped again back to the VFL for a spell
That said, he played a very defensive style of game that didn't go with what he has been producing at VFL level. That doesn't help getting his possessions up. Nor was playing on a guy like Pendelbury when the rest of the ship is sinking around him. That is not a good recipe for success.
Boekhorst, on the other hand, showed a bit when he came on. Not sold on him yet, but he did a LOT more than he did earlier and looked dangerous.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - blue4life - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 07:55 AM)laj link Wrote:No offence but anyone that thinks sacking Pagan was the worst thing we did is, well, struggling. How many spoons, 100pt defeats, 10 goal defeats, record losses could you stomach. It's unbelievable that anyone with any knowledge of the game could think that sacking Pagan was a bad move. No list is ever that bad to go as badly as we did under him. Soon as Ratten came in we went up the ladder and played finals 2 years later, with what was probably an average list too. that alone proved getting rid of Pagan was a good move.
There's no point going over it, what's done is done and neither of us will change our mind.
I remember going to a game when Pagan was coach, there were 16,000 of us hardy souls at the MCG to watch us line up Ian Prendergast against Matthew Pavlich, Pavlich kicked 3 in the first 10 minutes and ended up with 9.
That was fun, but I didn't blame Pagan when we lost the match.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - Lods - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 08:02 AM)crashlander link Wrote:That said, he played a very defensive style of game that didn't go with what he has been producing at VFL level. That doesn't help getting his possessions up. Nor was playing on a guy like Pendelbury when the rest of the ship is sinking around him. That is not a good recipe for success.
No doubt playing to instructions.
He was given a job that was probably against his natural style of play on one of the most dangerous players in the competition. ???
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - ItsOurTime - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 08:10 AM)blue4life link Wrote:There's no point going over it, what's done is done and neither of us will change our mind.
I remember going to a game when Pagan was coach, there were 16,000 of us hardy souls at the MCG to watch us line up Ian Prendergast against Matthew Pavlich, Pavlich kicked 3 in the first 10 minutes and ended up with 9.
That was fun, but I didn't blame Pagan when we lost the match.
Pagan had 5 years, the team was going backwards. Which is a bit of an effort as we were going onto our 3rd spoon in a row.
You get 1 year of going backwards if you are lucky in this game. Nature of the beast. Mick's had his go and he's come up short. The biggest mistake we made was letting him have free run instead of letting him know he has to fit within our structures.
Re: Carlton pasted by Pies (Post Game) - blue4life - 05-02-2015
(05-02-2015, 08:39 AM)ItsOurTime link Wrote:You get 1 year of going backwards if you are lucky in this game.
Luckily for Geelong supporters their club didn't follow that formula with Bomber Thompson.
5th in his first year then 12th, 9th and 12th in his next three, two years of finals then 10th in 2006.
The rest is history, it took him 8 years to win the flag but it was worth the wait, they won three.
Quote:The biggest mistake we made was letting him have free run instead of letting him know he has to fit within our structures.
We have structures?
