(04-20-2023, 02:25 PM)DJC link Wrote:I’d be more inclined to take Roy seriously if he had shared his thoughts with anyone other than the human pustule.

It’s fraught to weigh up cultural ethnicity against biological ethnicity but the bottom line is that the blokes that Thorpe accused of stealing her people’s land are closer to her genetically than she is to the people who’s land was stolen.

(04-20-2023, 11:12 PM)madbluboy link Wrote:If Bob was wrongfully jailed for raping boys I'm sure he would have said something.

(04-20-2023, 11:03 PM)Baggers link Wrote:Lidia strikes me as someone who seeks to be a victim and perhaps, eventually, a martyr. There seems to be an identity/personality issue (disorder?) happening there.

As for Bolt... he would have been desperate to invalidate Lidia's indigenous heritage and finding her father was a gold mine for him ('human pustule' is perhaps too kind, David). I notice on the depressing subject of Bolt he had little or nothing to say about the recent huge loss of Fr Bob, a shining example to the Catholic Church of real community and spiritual service to his people, but sure did come to the defence of Pell (the antithesis of Fr Bob) when he was in deserved strife. Makes a huge comment about Bolt.

(04-20-2023, 11:03 PM)Baggers link Wrote:Lidia strikes me as someone who seeks to be a victim and perhaps, eventually, a martyr. There seems to be an identity/personality issue (disorder?) happening there.

As for Bolt... he would have been desperate to invalidate Lidia's indigenous heritage and finding her father was a gold mine for him ('human pustule' is perhaps too kind, David). I notice on the depressing subject of Bolt he had little or nothing to say about the recent huge loss of Fr Bob, a shining example to the Catholic Church of real community and spiritual service to his people, but sure did come to the defence of Pell (the antithesis of Fr Bob) when he was in deserved strife. Makes a huge comment about Bolt.

(04-20-2023, 09:38 PM)Lods link Wrote:It's something I struggle with at times in these discussions...and not just race.
The human makeup is pretty complex
Folks want to identify as 'one' or the 'other' rather than embracing everything that is part of their makeup.
The net result is that it creates a barrier.
You v Me.
I guess the danger for those of indigenous backgrounds is that there may be a fear (justified, no doubt) that their culture is swamped and lost if they don't fight to preserve it.
It's not a new debate.
I remember that it was a discussion when I was back in High School
Assimilation v Integration.

Assimilation- where the population is blended together and minority identity is eventually filterered out v Integration- where the individual cultures are able to maintain and celebrate their identity within a larger society.

(04-20-2023, 11:40 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:Not really understanding her point of view there Baggers old mate.  I think I see part of my own struggle in hers and perhaps I am wrong with this, but the following is my assessment of this person:

Odds are she had a similar issue that I at times felt.  Too Indigenous to be accepted by white Australians growing up, and potentially feeling isolated from her fathers peers and would have on occasion felt as though she never really fit in.  Too privileged to truly identify with the indigenous community and likely not really feeling part of that either and experiencing a level of rejection from that side of the family too. 

The end result is someone who never really feels accepted which might be why she is alligning herself with the indigenous struggle.  She would be the type that would be fighting vehemently on either side depending on whom was the one claiming mistreatment.

My brother is like minded to her.  He is 8 years older than me, and I think this problem was exacerbated by having our grandparents live with us and raise us.  They were born in the 1920's, emigrated in the 1950's then played a part in raising grandchildren 20 years later to live in a society that has effectively left a lot of those outdated values behind.  I find myself having to check and recheck whether or not I am living in the past, and to a degree catch myself doing so.  The problem that this creates, is a fragmented cultural identity from a time that no longer exists.  The Greek side of the culture is historic, not current, and the Greeks in Greece stopped behaving with the same values that we hold dear.  The Indigenous problem is a little bit different.  They are holding onto values that dont fit into a modern society where the values didnt evolve into it.  Where I can look at Modern Greece and say that they have moved away from it, so whats the point in me holding onto it, the Aboriginal and Torres Straight islanders have been forced to leave a lot of their old ways of life behind, because we delivered a more modern way of living.  They didnt get to choose it.  It was thrust upon them to a degree and Indigenous culture and way of living can be problematic in the modern world for various reasons including land ownership.

Its a real cultural issue where one must decide whether to hold onto these things, or accept that they are relics of a bygone era.  The problem there is some of them are identity defining and the Indigenous folk didnt get to choose.  I reckon I could write a thesis on this so Ill leave that there, and hopefully I have made my point well enough to not have to argue with anyone too vehemently.

On a human level, irrespective of where Lydia sits on culture and identity, she is wrong on many levels.

(04-20-2023, 11:40 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:Not really understanding her point of view there Baggers old mate.  I think I see part of my own struggle in hers and perhaps I am wrong with this, but the following is my assessment of this person:

Odds are she had a similar issue that I at times felt.  Too Indigenous to be accepted by white Australians growing up, and potentially feeling isolated from her fathers peers and would have on occasion felt as though she never really fit in.  Too privileged to truly identify with the indigenous community and likely not really feeling part of that either and experiencing a level of rejection from that side of the family too. 

The end result is someone who never really feels accepted which might be why she is alligning herself with the indigenous struggle.  She would be the type that would be fighting vehemently on either side depending on whom was the one claiming mistreatment.

My brother is like minded to her.  He is 8 years older than me, and I think this problem was exacerbated by having our grandparents live with us and raise us.  They were born in the 1920's, emigrated in the 1950's then played a part in raising grandchildren 20 years later to live in a society that has effectively left a lot of those outdated values behind.  I find myself having to check and recheck whether or not I am living in the past, and to a degree catch myself doing so.  The problem that this creates, is a fragmented cultural identity from a time that no longer exists.  The Greek side of the culture is historic, not current, and the Greeks in Greece stopped behaving with the same values that we hold dear.  The Indigenous problem is a little bit different.  They are holding onto values that dont fit into a modern society where the values didnt evolve into it.  Where I can look at Modern Greece and say that they have moved away from it, so whats the point in me holding onto it, the Aboriginal and Torres Straight islanders have been forced to leave a lot of their old ways of life behind, because we delivered a more modern way of living.  They didnt get to choose it.  It was thrust upon them to a degree and Indigenous culture and way of living can be problematic in the modern world for various reasons including land ownership.

Its a real cultural issue where one must decide whether to hold onto these things, or accept that they are relics of a bygone era.  The problem there is some of them are identity defining and the Indigenous folk didnt get to choose.  I reckon I could write a thesis on this so Ill leave that there, and hopefully I have made my point well enough to not have to argue with anyone too vehemently.

On a human level, irrespective of where Lydia sits on culture and identity, she is wrong on many levels.

(04-20-2023, 11:40 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:Not really understanding her point of view there Baggers old mate.  I think I see part of my own struggle in hers and perhaps I am wrong with this, but the following is my assessment of this person:

Odds are she had a similar issue that I at times felt.  Too Indigenous to be accepted by white Australians growing up, and potentially feeling isolated from her fathers peers and would have on occasion felt as though she never really fit in.  Too privileged to truly identify with the indigenous community and likely not really feeling part of that either and experiencing a level of rejection from that side of the family too. 

The end result is someone who never really feels accepted which might be why she is alligning herself with the indigenous struggle.  She would be the type that would be fighting vehemently on either side depending on whom was the one claiming mistreatment.

My brother is like minded to her.  He is 8 years older than me, and I think this problem was exacerbated by having our grandparents live with us and raise us.  They were born in the 1920's, emigrated in the 1950's then played a part in raising grandchildren 20 years later to live in a society that has effectively left a lot of those outdated values behind.  I find myself having to check and recheck whether or not I am living in the past, and to a degree catch myself doing so.  The problem that this creates, is a fragmented cultural identity from a time that no longer exists.  The Greek side of the culture is historic, not current, and the Greeks in Greece stopped behaving with the same values that we hold dear.  The Indigenous problem is a little bit different.  They are holding onto values that dont fit into a modern society where the values didnt evolve into it.  Where I can look at Modern Greece and say that they have moved away from it, so whats the point in me holding onto it, the Aboriginal and Torres Straight islanders have been forced to leave a lot of their old ways of life behind, because we delivered a more modern way of living.  They didnt get to choose it.  It was thrust upon them to a degree and Indigenous culture and way of living can be problematic in the modern world for various reasons including land ownership.

Its a real cultural issue where one must decide whether to hold onto these things, or accept that they are relics of a bygone era.  The problem there is some of them are identity defining and the Indigenous folk didnt get to choose.  I reckon I could write a thesis on this so Ill leave that there, and hopefully I have made my point well enough to not have to argue with anyone too vehemently.

On a human level, irrespective of where Lydia sits on culture and identity, she is wrong on many levels.