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+--- Thread: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong (/thread-5994.html)
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - blueboys_1 - 03-25-2023
(03-24-2023, 08:00 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Rank these in order....
PLAYER
A - B - C
11 - 13 - 10 - Disposals
2 - 4 - 3 - Marks
217 - 204 - 97 - metres gained
1 - 2 - 0 - Goal assists
72 - 66 - 53 - TOG%
2 - 3 - 1 - I50's
4 - 6 - 2 - Score involvements
72 - 69 - 50 - DE%
6 - 1 - 2 - Tackles
3 - 0 - 1 - Clearances
FWIW.....
TDK - SOS - PItto
22 - 0 - 14 - Hitouts
Not sure how TDK/PITTO are getting so much love and Jack is the immediate out.
And he missed 2 sitters as well!
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - Thryleon - 03-26-2023
(03-25-2023, 11:18 AM)kruddler link Wrote:All those stat's are post casboult.
Really bad beats?
3 of the losses was by less than a goal. Another one was because we lost cripps early.
Kruddler, there have been games where Jack has rucked minimally because of how bad he was being beaten and opposition were wise to it, and just thumped the ball clear of the contest to the outside of the pack where our wingers got smashed.
Im a fan of playing all 3 in the team, and using one as a sub as fine, but jsos as second ruck is going to work less frequently the more he does it.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - DJC - 03-26-2023
(03-26-2023, 07:42 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Kruddler, there have been games where Jack has rucked minimally because of how bad he was being beaten and opposition were wise to it, and just thumped the ball clear of the contest to the outside of the pack where our wingers got smashed.
Im a fan of playing all 3 in the team, and using one as a sub as fine, but jsos as second ruck is going to work less frequently the more he does it.
Absolutely!
Richmond got away with Grigg in the ruck until opposition coaches worked out how to exploit his lack of size.
The worst aspect of using Jack as a pinch hitting ruckman is that it impacts his work as a forward and makes it harder for our other forwards.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - kruddler - 03-26-2023
(03-26-2023, 08:03 AM)DJC link Wrote:Absolutely!Got worked out real well.....after they won a flag with the tactic.
Richmond got away with Grigg in the ruck until opposition coaches worked out how to exploit his lack of size.
The worst aspect of using Jack as a pinch hitting ruckman is that it impacts his work as a forward and makes it harder for our other forwards.
I'll take that.
People fixate on the difference in output between Jack and a genuine 2nd ruck, but they are completely ignoring the fact that we get an extra midfielder as part of that balancing act.
That (lack of) an extra midfielder against the cats almost cost us the game.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - madbluboy - 03-26-2023
How did that work last year against Geelong? Blicavs destroyed us.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - DJC - 03-26-2023
(03-26-2023, 08:12 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Got worked out real well.....after they won a flag with the tactic.
I'll take that.
People fixate on the difference in output between Jack and a genuine 2nd ruck, but they are completely ignoring the fact that we get an extra midfielder as part of that balancing act.
That (lack of) an extra midfielder against the cats almost cost us the game.
It only took a couple of games for opposition coaches to work out how to exploit Jack in the ruck. For example, in Round 14 last year, Hardwick had Balta play on Jack both when he was a forward and in the ruck. Balta was simply too strong for Jack and the latter had no influence at all ... and we lost. Against Collingwood the following week, Cox and cameron were simply too tall and exploited Jack in the ruck and around the ground ... and we lost again.
Jack isn't an extra midfielder when he goes into the ruck. He has to try to negate the opposition rucks and they work on dragging him to both ends of the ground to create a marking advantage in attack or defence, as well as providing a taller marking option during their transition or to disrupt our transition.
As for the Geelong game, Blicavs - when he wasn't rucking - started in the square on Cripps, then drifted forward to create another marking target and/or drag Cripps out of the midfield. Cripps didn't go with him, giving us an extra number around the ball.
What almost cost us the game was our inability to transition out of defence. That wasn't helped by Pitto's lack of match fitness/ managed minutes, but he did give us the ability to compete in the air. Silvagni does that when he plays as a forward and doesn't have to compete against taller, stronger opponents.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - laj - 03-26-2023
All this discussion about rucks, type of ruck combo we should use etc, did show the value of Levi in his time here as a "professional 2nd ruck" and forward. JSOS can't do his ruck job and we're certainly not going to risk a big forward there. Pittonet and De Koning are a nice combo though. More than capable of doing more than just simply rucking.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - kruddler - 03-26-2023
(03-26-2023, 09:00 AM)madbluboy link Wrote:How did that work last year against Geelong? Blicavs destroyed us.Blicavs destroyed cripps......which destroyed us.
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - madbluboy - 03-26-2023
By what measure do you actually think Silvagni is performing well in the ruck?
Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong - LP - 03-26-2023
Didn't Blicavs 2nd Ruck against us last year, I also recall Hawkins doing a ruck number on us inside F50 as well?
Actually, that game was a great example supporting my argument that taps are pretty much over-rated and 2nd efforts dominate.
Taps to Advantage is a bogus stat because it's hybrid, the stat depends 50/50 on the actions of the Ruck and the actions of the Mids.
The 2nd Efforts like Tackles and 1%ers are pure stats from which all the Ruckmen can be evaluated.