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+--- Thread: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) (/thread-1983.html)
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - Vivian - 05-15-2015
Picking the best side in order to win must be the first principle of selection. The play the kids and develop young players principle must come a distant second.
Want to build a culture of mediocrity? Then losing games will get you there, especially when it come with the excuse of playing young players who need to have a go. The other deficiancy of this approach is when does it stop. When does a club decide to stop being 'developmental' and picking the best side? Who gets an opportunity and why? It can become very confusing and incoherent very fast.
Malthouse is trying to build a bridge to a culture and attitude that is about winning and believing you can win every game. The straightforward way to this is pick the best side. Otherwise you are half a side going out to win (and knowing that you are unlikely to) and another half who are having a go. To this i bollocks. This isn't football camp, it's the AFL. Pick the best side and try and win every game. Anything less is folly.
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - PassIt2Carrots - 05-15-2015
You have failed to grasp the concept of a rebuild.
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - Thryleon - 05-15-2015
(05-15-2015, 06:41 AM)Vivian link Wrote:Picking the best side in order to win must be the first principle of selection. The play the kids and develop young players principle must come a distant second.
Want to build a culture of mediocrity? Then losing games will get you there, especially when it come with the excuse of playing young players who need to have a go. The other deficiancy of this approach is when does it stop. When does a club decide to stop being 'developmental' and picking the best side? Who gets an opportunity and why? It can become very confusing and incoherent very fast.
Malthouse is trying to build a bridge to a culture and attitude that is about winning and believing you can win every game. The straightforward way to this is pick the best side. Otherwise you are half a side going out to win (and knowing that you are unlikely to) and another half who are having a go. To this i bollocks. This isn't football camp, it's the AFL. Pick the best side and try and win every game. Anything less is folly.
Yep we need this more than anything else I think.
More than draft picks, more than trading more than anything.
we need to build a culture of success.
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - ItsOurTime - 05-15-2015
Lack of planning in player development is what's killed us. Mick's philosophy of selecting the best side to win with no eye for getting experience into the people who will be critical to our success in five years is exactly what got us into a mess. A mess where we have about 100 games experience to our entire U23 squad.
Can't be too good a strategy anyway as we're fighting it out for a spoon AND not getting vital experience into kids. It's like getting whacked twice.
Making decisions based upon match ups, for example, is a disgrace
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - Vivian - 05-15-2015
(05-15-2015, 06:46 AM)PassIt2Carrots link Wrote:You have failed to grasp the concept of a rebuild.
And any rebuild will be on shaky foundations if some basic principles have not been adhered to through the process. I get what Malthouse is attempting. He is trying to build a team on a set of basic principles that can be understood and therefore maintained by all in the team. It's just that it is hard to do.
The popular understanding of what is ostensively called a rebuild is flawed. Playing youngsters on the crieteria of being young, with potential and requiring experience is flawed if it is the primary basis for selection. When does it stop? And if it does, and a club then decides to suuddenly try and win games, it must change its criteria for selection.
Its a bit like hoping that we get experience in now and hope it works out. It is setting the right goal yet taking the wrong path. Set the goal and start conducting yourself as a team like you want to be now, not in some yet to be determined future time when things are deemed all right. Behaving like losers is a sure way to continue losing.
Malthouse is already building something. It's a selection process based on attempting to win games of football first and foremost I struggle to understand how anything less can be helpful in building something sustainable and successful.
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - Rational_Expectations - 05-15-2015
(05-15-2015, 06:41 AM)Vivian link Wrote:Picking the best side in order to win must be the first principle of selection. The play the kids and develop young players principle must come a distant second.
Want to build a culture of mediocrity? Then losing games will get you there, especially when it come with the excuse of playing young players who need to have a go. The other deficiancy of this approach is when does it stop. When does a club decide to stop being 'developmental' and picking the best side? Who gets an opportunity and why? It can become very confusing and incoherent very fast.
Malthouse is trying to build a bridge to a culture and attitude that is about winning and believing you can win every game. The straightforward way to this is pick the best side. Otherwise you are half a side going out to win (and knowing that you are unlikely to) and another half who are having a go. To this i bollocks. This isn't football camp, it's the AFL. Pick the best side and try and win every game. Anything less is folly.
Agreed.
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - PassIt2Carrots - 05-15-2015
(05-15-2015, 07:26 AM)Vivian link Wrote:And any rebuild will be on shaky foundations if some basic principles have not been adhered to through the process. I get what Malthouse is attempting. He is trying to build a team on a set of basic principles that can be understood and therefore maintained by all in the team. It's just that it is hard to do.
The popular understanding of what is ostensively called a rebuild is flawed. Playing youngsters on the crieteria of being young, with potential and requiring experience is flawed if it is the primary basis for selection. When does it stop? And if it does, and a club then decides to suuddenly try and win games, it must change its criteria for selection.
Its a bit like hoping that we get experience in now and hope it works out. It is setting the right goal yet taking the wrong path. Set the goal and start conducting yourself as a team like you want to be now, not in some yet to be determined future time when things are deemed all right. Behaving like losers is a sure way to continue losing.
Malthouse is already building something. It's a selection process based on attempting to win games of football first and foremost I struggle to understand how anything less can be helpful in building something sustainable and successful.
Once again you have totally failed to grasp the concept of a rebuild. A rebuild is not bout winning games, it's about sacrificing a few wins to get games into kids and accelerate their development. Have a read of LLT's post. Also take a look at GC and then GWS. GWS went with the kids and they are now reaping the rewards, with a great foundation of kids having played games (not wins) to build on. Have a look what Dennis did when he tried to make us competitive by playing and recruiting more hardened senior rejects. He set us back years.
If you think the concept of a rebuild is flawed that's fine, but don't sit there and try to tell me a rebuild is all about winning games first and foremost because that is just plain rubbish.
Pushing all that to the side, you simply cannot argue that malthouse is building towards anything other than a big pile of shight, when the team continues to regress at a rate of knots. If he is in fact trying to do what you say, he is failing dismally and as well as getting the method wrong, he has totally missed the mark. He has to go, and he will go.
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - RiverRat - 05-15-2015
Pretty obvious selections really - like for like
White for Walker - swingmen
Yarran for Buckley - downhill skier with better delivery skills
Menzel for Boekhorst - medium forwards
Carrazzo for Whiley - defensive midflelder who can get possessions for one who can't
Dick for Graham - sub for sub - maybe Dick fits the vest better
Tutt for Smith - Tutt is faster - although Smith showed enogh last week to suggest he could be a player when he grows bigger, stronger or faster
Watson for Jones - both seemingly inept KPP
The one I feel sorriest for is Whiley - Wile E is clearly not as fast as Carrazzo - he reminded me of Wile E Coyote - the way he chased Pendlebury and Beams all over the field the past 2 weeks - bloody tough ask for the youngster
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - Vivian - 05-15-2015
(05-15-2015, 08:11 AM)PassIt2Carrots link Wrote:Once again you have totally failed to grasp the concept of a rebuild. A rebuild is not bout winning games, it's about sacrificing a few wins to get games into kids and accelerate their development. Have a read of LLT's post. Also take a look at GC and then GWS. GWS went with the kids and they are now reaping the rewards, with a great foundation of kids having played games (not wins) to build on. Have a look what Dennis did when he tried to make us competitive by playing and recruiting more hardened senior rejects. He set us back years.
If you think the concept of a rebuild is flawed that's fine, but don't sit there and try to tell me a rebuild is all about winning games first and foremost because that is just plain rubbish.
Pushing all that to the side, you simply cannot argue that malthouse is building towards anything other than a big pile of shight, when the team continues to regress at a rate of knots. If he is in fact trying to do what you say, he is failing dismally and as well as getting the method wrong, he has totally missed the mark. He has to go, and he will go.
I wasn't arguing that the approach is a raging success
)But I think it is a better path than thinking a few games here and there being lost, but providing experience to young players is a good thing. Yes a young player will get 100 minutes of football. But in a side that he knows is not serious about winning. Seems a good way for players to then play for themselves and not the team. It creates self preservation and entitlement.
GWS and GC both had lists of young players and indeed were stacked to the gills with them. GWS have however put some more experience in, and not put too much store in a Gary Ablett type to generate success. It may be working as GC seem to be demonstrating some problems that comes from a bunch of talented juniors getting games and then not progressing and
There are a lot of moving parts in this caper so much to wrong and right. But a few clear consistant principles is one way to deal with this, i.e. picking the best team to win each week. Behave as you want to be and it might happen.
Re: RD 7 : Blues V Giants (Pre-Match Pre-Amble) - cimm1979 - 05-15-2015
(05-15-2015, 08:59 AM)RiverRat link Wrote:The one I feel sorriest for is Whiley - Wile E is clearly not as fast as Carrazzo - he reminded me of Wile E Coyote - the way he chased Pendlebury and Beams all over the field the past 2 weeks - bloody tough ask for the youngster
If he's not as fast as Carrots and not a great kick, why is he here?