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+--- Thread: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast (/thread-4840.html)
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - Gointocarlton - 08-11-2020
(08-11-2020, 10:21 AM)Baggers link Wrote:EB1... such an important post. And right on the money. Leadership presence is a very, very real thing.Doc is a strange one, He has spent two years as a "coach" during his knee rehab and from all reports, has a great footy brain and reads/sees the game better than most, a senior coach in waiting. And yet...
When Hodge went to BrisVegas... well, the evidence is there.
I cannot think of a Premiership side that had a 'nice' Skipper. Remember, this is a gladiatorial sport.
Our entire side, for decades, has relied on coaches/runners for direction & leadership... no-one stepped up to be the ruthless on-field leader, except maybe for Juddy, by example.
Crippa is, as a leader, nice... Doc doesn't have a hair out of place, impeccable. Terrific blokes, terrific players.
But who is the leader who reads the game, demands change, is uncompromising in his instructions? Who commands respect simply by his actions/voice/presence? This is a serious question. Hint... it aint Simmo, he was raised on failure but is a great of our club through times of deep failure.
So, who is, or who should be, or who should be recruited, to be a bona fide on-field leader - presence & brains ahead of example, please.
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - Thryleon - 08-11-2020
(08-11-2020, 10:21 AM)Baggers link Wrote:EB1... such an important post. And right on the money. Leadership presence is a very, very real thing.
When Hodge went to BrisVegas... well, the evidence is there.
I cannot think of a Premiership side that had a 'nice' Skipper. Remember, this is a gladiatorial sport.
Our entire side, for decades, has relied on coaches/runners for direction & leadership... no-one stepped up to be the ruthless on-field leader, except maybe for Juddy, by example.
Crippa is, as a leader, nice... Doc doesn't have a hair out of place, impeccable. Terrific blokes, terrific players.
But who is the leader who reads the game, demands change, is uncompromising in his instructions? Who commands respect simply by his actions/voice/presence? This is a serious question. Hint... it aint Simmo, he was raised on failure but is a great of our club through times of deep failure.
So, who is, or who should be, or who should be recruited, to be a bona fide on-field leader - presence & brains ahead of example, please.
Trent cotchin instantly comes to mind.
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - ElwoodBlues1 - 08-11-2020
(08-11-2020, 09:29 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:Again, in my mind, you don't need to be the teams gun player, think Nick Maxwell. Nowhere near the best player, but was ruthless from what I am told.Maxwell was appointed for political reasons, the rat pack and wannabe rat packers vs the rest led by Dawes, Jolly, Ball etc..
Maxwell was the neutral both groups would work under... source Collingwood recruiting staff member.
Harley was similar at Geelong...
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - laj - 08-12-2020
I remember the days we used to get huge run-ons of goals on a near weekly basis in the premiership 3rd qtrs of the 80s.
Now it happens to us on a weekly basis at a random points of a game. If we can get on top of that from here, and it's not that easy, we actually won't lose many games for the rest of the year. Generally that has cost us most of our losses this year. We got on top of the slow starts, we just have other slow patches now.
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - ElwoodBlues1 - 08-12-2020
(08-11-2020, 11:58 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:Trent cotchin instantly comes to mind.
Cotchin is a leopard rather than a Tiger who has tried changing his spots, initially was a timid type who didnt lead well and was accused of skirting the hard stuff, being selfish and indirect with his play and not man enough to lead a pack of Tigers.
Now some would equate those comments with a ex captain of Carlton sill playing...
Cotchin to his credit has altered his game, more inside example setting, trying to seize big moments in games and has also developed as a sniper in his efforts to prove his toughness. Bit artificial and forced for me but he has the runs on the board and the taggers looking sideways for a cheap shot. I know leadership isnt all about being physical on the field but its usually a good start
to win players respect, players will follow a captain who puts himself in danger and sacrifices for the club and Cotchin has been able to do that better in the later stages of his captaincy .
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - Thryleon - 08-12-2020
^^
IF he wasnt a premiership captain, he wouldnt have that reputation. He would be the reason they never won one. In reality, he has delegated those tasks to his mates, whilst he is a relative clean skin. Its the Caddy, Riewoldt, Dusty, Edwards, Vlastuin, Astbury types that do this stuff. Cotchin isnt in that category he just goes when its his turn.
Murphy tried to do similar, and no one went with him.
Anyway, Cotchin is a two time premiership captain who is a nice guy but is no tough guy.
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - ElwoodBlues1 - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 04:16 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:^^Agree with all of that apart from the fact Cotchin has developed as a sniper who isnt adverse to the cheap shot punch or knee....
IF he wasnt a premiership captain, he wouldnt have that reputation. He would be the reason they never won one. In reality, he has delegated those tasks to his mates, whilst he is a relative clean skin. Its the Caddy, Riewoldt, Dusty, Edwards, Vlastuin, Astbury types that do this stuff. Cotchin isnt in that category he just goes when its his turn.
Murphy tried to do similar, and no one went with him.
Anyway, Cotchin is a two time premiership captain who is a nice guy but is no tough guy.
He isnt tough though as you say and wears a Tigers mask on the field and his leadership is more organizational than by example most times.
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - Gointocarlton - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 04:25 AM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Agree with all of that apart from the fact Cotchin has developed as a sniper who isnt adverse to the cheap shot punch or knee....In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?
He isnt tough though as you say and wears a Tigers mask on the field and his leadership is more organizational than by example most times.
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - laj - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 06:36 AM)Gointocarlton link Wrote:In hindsight, would you have picked Kreuzer or Cotchin in the 2007 Draft?I'd have kept Kennedy and gave the Eagles pick 1 and 3 like they wanted initially. Hindsight is wonderful unfortunately.
Re: Post Game Participation: AFL Rd 11: Carlton vs West Coast - Gointocarlton - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 06:40 AM)laj link Wrote:I'd have kept Kennedy and gave the Eagles pick 1 and 3 like they wanted initially. Hindsight is wonderful unfortunately.Nice, but not what I asked. ;D