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+--- Thread: SSM Plebiscite (/thread-3461.html)
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - kruddler - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 01:18 AM)PaulP link Wrote:.... I say that this issue is a basic human right and should not be a matter of debate.
...but haven't the government created this problem themselves by holding the plebiscite in the first place.
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - PaulP - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 01:21 AM)kruddler link Wrote:...but haven't the government created this problem themselves by holding the plebiscite in the first place.
Of course.
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - LP - 09-19-2017
This issue and others that will surface in coming weeks and months are the very reason why so many opposed the vote.
The gutless politicians have chosen an anarchist path in preference to leading!
If this vote is close either way, things will get very bad!
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - kruddler - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 01:55 AM)LP link Wrote:This issue and others that will surface in coming weeks and months are the very reason why so many opposed the vote.
The gutless politicians have chosen an anarchist path in preference to leading!
If this vote is close either way, things will get very bad!
I'm assuming that the figures will be released. I'm expecting a 90% vote for yes. Although, it is a little hard to predict what some of our northerners who vote for Pauline and co will do.
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - LP - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 01:57 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I'm assuming that the figures will be released. I'm expecting a 90% vote for yes. Although, it is a little hard to predict what some of our northerners who vote for Pauline and co will do.
I think it's highly unlikely that the vote will be as definitive as you think, in the political circles the scuttlebutt is that it's going to be line-ball!
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - kruddler - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 02:05 AM)LP link Wrote:I think it's highly unlikely that the vote will be as definitive as you think, in the political circles the scuttlebutt is that it's going to be line-ball!
In the political circles, they mix with political types. Have the been polling their individual electorates? Or just their mates?
I suspect the largely rich white folk who are in politics would be very split on how to vote.
However, there are not many average citizens that i know who would NOT even entertain the thought of a no vote. These are the same people that politicians overlook.
I can honestly say that i have not met one single person who has said they are 'no' voters. Nobody in my (extended) family, no matter if they be 18 (cousin) or 80 (grandfather) or anywhere inbetween are voting no. Nor any of my circle of friends, colleagues or acquaintances.
However, all throughout facebook and the like there are countless yes voters. Rainbow flags are up in business windows, and even some houses.
As i said, i cannot predict what the northern states are going to do, but unless there is a hidden state of no-voters out there i can't understand how it would even come close to 50-50
EDIT: Fixed up an important omission.
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - DJC - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 02:30 AM)kruddler link Wrote:In the political circles, they mix with political types. Have the been polling their individual electorates? Or just their mates?
I suspect the largely rich white folk who are in politics would be very split on who to vote.
However, there are not many average citizens that i know who would even entertain the thought of a no vote. These are the same people that politicians overlook.
I can honestly say that i have not met one single person who has said they are 'no' voters. Nobody in my (extended) family, no matter if they be 18 (cousin) or 80 (grandfather) or anywhere inbetween are voting no. Nor any of my circle of friends, colleagues or acquaintances.
However, all throughout facebook and the like there are countless yes voters. Rainbow flags are up in business windows, and even some houses.
As i said, i cannot predict what the northern states are going to do, but unless there is a hidden state of no-voters out there i can't understand how it would even come close to 50-50
My experience is similar to yours Kruddler although one Christian friend is probably going to tick the 'no' box.
I suspect that many undecided folk won't bother to respond and there will be a significant apathetic bloc who simply won't bother. I can't see that bolstering the 'no' vote and the result should reflect the opinion polls. And that raises the question of why the government is wasting $122M on another opinion poll?
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - dodge - 09-19-2017
I have only had conversations with the more fundamental Christians about this. They are definitely on the no side. The Pentecostal/fundamental church is pretty big (eg some get 8k plus through their doors on a weekend) My facebook feeds suggests that the more progressive Christians will vote yes. Pretty much all non-church people my age seem to be yes.
My gut feeling is that the vote will be close. The conservative congregations will have this thrown at them every week, the yes side doesn't quite have the same captive audience.
What disappoints me is that that when a no vote is suggested, suddenly that person is a bigot, homophobic and full of hate. They generally aren't, they just don't see marriage as a same sex thing, or see homosexuality as a moral issue, which they are against. Surely their view is just as valid as any other.
I also detest how some of the 'no' vote attacks advocates of SSM in a personal and derogatory way.
I find it odd that the many parts of the church argues for a whole range exemptions from discrimination, which seems to be to go totally against Jesus' teaching.
It would be interesting to know how many surveys were sent back before any real campaigning started. The whole survey is resulting in horrible division within the country and we would have been much better off if the politicians had the guts to make a decision. Another thing we can blame Howard and his generally bad government for (although the public discourse when he changed the marriage act was basically non-existent from memory). One day it would be great if politicians governed for the country, not their party!
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - LP - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 02:49 AM)DJC link Wrote:My experience is similar to yours Kruddler although one Christian friend is probably going to tick the 'no' box.
(09-19-2017, 02:30 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I can honestly say that i have not met one single person who has said they are 'no' voters.
In my opinion many conservative or religious types will publicly state "yes" but privately vote "no", they want the path of least confrontation.
As for the younger kids, they are "The Survivor" generation, they want what they want.
(09-19-2017, 02:30 AM)kruddler link Wrote:I suspect the largely rich white folk who are in politics would be very split on how to vote.
I think it's a little ironic for you to apply those stereotypes, I suspect that is exactly what Abbott's right leaning conservatives want you to do very publicly!
Regardless I'm happy to be proven wrong!
Re: Father's Day ad pulled! - kruddler - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 03:48 AM)LP link Wrote:I think it's a little ironic for you to apply those stereotypes, I suspect that is exactly what Abbott's right leaning conservatives want you to do very publicly!
Regardless I'm happy to be proven wrong!
Well my reason for doing so is because they would be the type of people (like Abbott) that I have very little dealings with personally. More traditionalists who are set in their ways.
As i said, almost all of the people i deal with, family, friends and otherwise are very publicly yes voters and have very little in common with Abbott and co. Those who you could draw a tenuous link to them, are still Yes voters.
It might be worth noting that, at least in my experiences, religion is becoming less a part of younger peoples lives nowadays. That is, less religious people around now than say 20-30 years ago. I think the recent census backs that up. Considering the majority of 'no' voters seem to fall into that category too, so the media seems to suggest, it also backs up my theory.
FWIW, i'm an atheist. I am happy for people to live their lives however they want both in terms of religious views and who they want to marry. I am also happy for them to voice their opposing view on both matters despite not agreeing with it.