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+--- Thread: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain (/thread-2638.html)
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - kruddler - 04-10-2016
(04-10-2016, 12:43 AM)PassIt2Carrots link Wrote:If you can't see the damage Everitt is doing when he is out there I give up.
If your established players are playing nowhere near their potential it's a no brainer to trade them out.
Are you going to b!tch about it later on when you say we've traded out all our goal kickers??
Funny stat, all our leading goalkickers from 2002 onwards have left to play elsewhere except 2.
1. Walker
2. Everitt
This includes, McKernan, Fevola, Waite, Betts, Garlett.....doesn't even include Kennedy!
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - PassIt2Carrots - 04-10-2016
No one is saying Bolton is going to make it are they?
I told you guys we went way too early with the fluff 30 minutes documentary a few weeks back lol.
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - PaulP - 04-10-2016
(04-10-2016, 12:57 AM)Lods link Wrote:I understand all the arguments with regards to patience, and a new coach bringing new ideas, players adapting to a new game plan.... and young players needing time to develop....green shoots etc
I understand them because I've heard and seen them for the last 15 years.
So while I accept that Bolton needs a chance to prove that this time is different..... I'm convinced of nothing until we actually get results.(Been burnt too many times)
If you go through our list and ask yourself who is playing better than they were last year, you'll struggle to find many, and a lot have gone backwards.....
While the style of play is different (and perhaps a bit more attractive) the scoreboard results certainly aren't.
Last year after 3 rounds we'd kicked 224 points..... this year 195
Our percentage was 65.7 this year 61.3.
It's much too early to make solid judgements and there is a positiveness about the place that things will get better.
But you have to start showing some solid evidence because positive talk quickly evaporates if the results don't come.
I agree in principle with your post, but the bit in bold is crucial - it is, as you say, far too early make any judgments, but what amount of time is the right time to start making calls ?
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - PassIt2Carrots - 04-10-2016
(04-10-2016, 01:05 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Are you going to b!tch about it later on when you say we've traded out all our goal kickers??
I don't see Everitt as even just a player, he's a poonce, bloke doesn't like touching people and is playing professional football. If you are talking about Betts and co, they were more than just goalkickers. It's insulting to even compare them to Everitt.
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - cookie2 - 04-10-2016
(04-10-2016, 01:02 AM)kruddler link Wrote:Too true.
The biggest improvement have come in the form of blokes who weren't on our list last year. Recruits (Kerridge, Wright) and draftees (Weitering, Curnofides).
Sadly, at this stage at least, the ones we need to improve Casboult, Everitt, Gibbs, Murphy....have all stagnated if not gone backwards.
I think that by now we have already seen the best that these guys can offer. There could be some marginal improvement but that's about it AFAIC. As they say in the classics, "Don't hold yer breath".
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - Lods - 04-10-2016
(04-10-2016, 01:08 AM)PaulP link Wrote:I agree in principle with your post, but the bit in bold is crucial - it is, as you say, far too early make any judgments, but what amount of time is the right time to start making calls ?
I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.
I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion, professional footballer, due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them
Their own "education" was limited as a result.
In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)
I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.
We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - MosquitoFleet - 04-10-2016
(04-10-2016, 01:27 AM)Lods link Wrote:I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.
I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion professional footballer due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them so their own "education" was limited as a result
In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)
I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.
We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.
agree with this - we are a bottom 4 side and we will win our 5th spoon in 14 years
apart from the Board and any remaining old admin existing under pratt, smorgon and sticks (which should all be wiped away) we should trade all our last remaining assets in murphy gibbs kruez simmo for draft picks and go young and bottom right out like st kilda did in early 2000. we run the risk of putting too much load on the young players - but from 3 games i have more confidence in cripps and no 23 as leaders than the frustrating introverts of jamo murph and gibbs
btw I dont understand why docherty gets raved about
the president must speak to daisy and demand his retirement - come to a financial arrangement to reduce our cap pressure and get him out of the joint
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - PaulP - 04-10-2016
So then, is it possible to quantify the "results" that you insist on seeing before you "believe" ? What are the signs that we're looking for and what is the time limit in which we need to see these "signs" ? Do we assume that this season is a wipe out in terms of W/L ? Are we looking for a minimum number of wins ? Honorable losses ? 4 q efforts ? Development of the young players etc. ?
What will be give us the comfort of knowing we're in the right hands, on the right path ?
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - PassIt2Carrots - 04-10-2016
(04-10-2016, 01:27 AM)Lods link Wrote:I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.
I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion professional footballer due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them so their own "education" was limited as a result
In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)
I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.
We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.
Spot on lods, the above two did not develop properly, I think they are just as much to blame they had blokes like Carrazzo, Simpson and Scotland showing them how it's done. How do they say.....you can lead a horse to water?
As they are now, they will ruin the development of the youngsters and teach them that you can pick and choose when you go. Let's ditch them and pronto.
Re: Rd 3: Carlton vs Gold Coast: Post Game Pain - PassIt2Carrots - 04-10-2016
(04-10-2016, 01:35 AM)PaulP link Wrote:So then, is it possible to quantify the "results" that you insist on seeing before you "believe" ? What are the signs that we're looking for and what is the time limit in which we need to see these "signs" ? Do we assume that this season is a wipe out in terms of W/L ? Are we looking for a minimum number of wins ? Honorable losses ? 4 q efforts ? Development of the young players etc. ?
What will be give us the comfort of knowing we're in the right hands, on the right path ?
We already have seen some signs.....our first year players look to be performing alright so far and our game style is far more attractive when executed correctly.