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+--- Thread: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain (/thread-2043.html)
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - LP - 05-31-2015
(05-31-2015, 11:19 PM)Lods link Wrote:Had he turned around and did it as he headed back towards the centre it probably wouldn't be an issue.
I've no doubt there's an element of racisim in criticism of Goodes.
It's no accident he charged towards the crowd, not towards the goals, not with or towards team-mates, not towards Swans supporters.
It appears to me he is learning to profit from his ethnicity, using his heritage as a money maker and attention seeking, in effect prostituting his heritage! His efforts do nothing for peace, harmony or equality. He is more radical than anything else, he has become almost an embarrassment as Australian of the Year. His efforts are destructive not constructive, he is the antithesis of Rosie Batty! Perhaps he came through an abusive childhood and thinks the fist is the solution to all problems!
And as I have stated before, Caucasians have no monopoly on racism!
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - ElwoodBlues1 - 06-01-2015
(05-31-2015, 11:19 PM)Lods link Wrote:This is really tricky
It's a really difficult situation to make a judgement on and it depends a bit on perspective. I reckon it’s one of those times when there are elements of both sides that need to be considered.
I thought Goodes' éxplanation straight after the game was a good one and it pretty much put it to bed for me. What better time for an indigenous celebration than the indigenous round.
On the other hand if you're sitting in the stand, with no background information as to what was occurring... your team is heading for defeat, and the player kicks a goal and charges towards you waving an imaginary spear, you would probably regard it as an aggressive gesture and would respond accordingly.
Fans cannot be mind readers...
The majority wouldn't think.... "Oh that's just Adam expressing his pride in his indigenous heritage"
To them it would seem like he was saying "stick that one up you."
Had he turned around and did it as he headed back towards the centre it probably wouldn't be an issue.
I've no doubt there's an element of racisim in criticism of Goodes.
I'd like to think it's a small one.
I also think there's an element of disrespect towards him in a similar fashion to players who are seen to exploit the rules and are squealers and divers.
and then...
Some folk obviously just don't take to him as an opposition player.
(I can think of a hundred Essendon players I feel/ have felt that way about
)
I didn't have a huge problem with the dance but I can understand the "time, place and manner of execution" argument.
While it may have showed a pride and respect for his culture it would be hard for those on the receiving end to view it as respectful towards them.
My understanding is that it wasn't a traditional indigenous 'dance' in the manner of the Maori ‘’haka’’ but rather a modern compilation developed for an underage team.
As such a football audience would have little or no knowledge of its significance and take it on face value.
Look at it from a Carlton fans point of view, after giving the bloke no grief all night unlike the Hawks fans.....your team is on the rack being flogged..again... and then you have Goodes in your face waving a pretend spear at you.
Not sure many fans would be that understanding of his war dance in a ceremonial sense and would view that as Goodes giving you the finger, I appreciate its the indigenous round and AG was probably letting off some steam but he is probably lucky that our fans are the non confronting type overall and he didnt receive a real projectile coming back his way...
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - Thryleon - 06-01-2015
What a yawn this whole discussion is.
He did something towards fans that was pretty aggressive and shouldnt be tolerated, as any other act.
The fact that it was indigenous is secondary.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - MosquitoFleet - 06-01-2015
(06-01-2015, 12:27 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:What a yawn this whole discussion is.
He did something towards fans that was pretty aggressive and shouldnt be tolerated, as any other act.
The fact that it was indigenous is secondary.
the afl commission fully endorsed the actions of goodes - more than just a yawn..
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - crashlander - 06-01-2015
I must admit I've had enough of the Goodes dance thing.
It irritated me in that we couldn't stick it up him. We are not going that well and he felt he could disrespect us and get away with it. Fine. So he doesn't respect us. I'm really going to care. I just hope we can remember this and use it towards our beating Sydney next time.
If he wants to lie and say what ever he wants to say, I'm not going to worry about it.
We did not get any justice in the Greg Williams Umpire Saga. We didn't get any justice in the 1973 GF, Etc. These things hurt us and we got nothing. I am not going to worry about some bloke acting like a dill.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - hotspur - 06-01-2015
I was at the game sitting right above the cheer squad .Whenever Goodes went for the ball they booed him ,so what big deal.He ( Goodes ) thought he would be a smart arse and do a war dance in front of the 200 odd Carlton supporters ,sitting there .I thought he was a bit childish ,I dare him to do the war dance in front of Carlton Scum,Filth,Tigers supperters in Melbourne ,
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - PassIt2Carrots - 06-01-2015
If Yarran had done the dance towards the Sydney crowd no doubt you'd all be just as scathing?
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - blue4life - 06-01-2015
The Goodes thing has been done to death and I think Lod's post got it mostly right, in that the timing was probably poor on his part but there wasn't anything wrong with what he did.
I must admit that watching it on TV I was bemused, I didn't know where it had come from and thought WTF was that about, but I didn't find it offensive or confrontational, just a bit odd.
Having said that, my nephew is a yobbo and I was looking at his Facebook feed yesterday.
The comments about Goodes by him and his yobbo mates are deeply racist and offensive, so anyone who thinks that racism is a peripheral issue here or that some of the criticism of Goodes isn't racially motivated is kidding them self in my opinion.
Deep down we each know where we stand and this isn't the place to make assumptions, but unless we admit that racism is a very real part of the attitude for a significant minority of our society we can never do anything to address it.
Just my two bob's worth.
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - ItsOurTime - 06-01-2015
(06-01-2015, 12:27 AM)Thryleon link Wrote:What a yawn this whole discussion is.
He did something towards fans that was pretty aggressive and shouldnt be tolerated, as any other act.
The fact that it was indigenous is secondary.
It's not like he fly kicked someone. Plugger's spearing kicks into the opposition cheer squads were a bit far but I see no problem with gestures and the like. It shows the player isn't 100% on the game mentally though and as a coach I wouldn't be pleased
Re: Round 9: Carlton vs. Sydney Post Game Pain - PassIt2Carrots - 06-01-2015
(06-01-2015, 02:05 AM)blue4life link Wrote:The Goodes thing has been done to death and I think Lod's post got it mostly right, in that the timing was probably poor on his part but there wasn't anything wrong with what he did.
I must admit that watching it on TV I was bemused, I didn't know where it had come from and thought WTF was that about, but I didn't find it offensive or confrontational, just a bit odd.
Having said that, my nephew is a yobbo and I was looking at his Facebook feed yesterday.
The comments about Goodes by him and his yobbo mates are deeply racist and offensive, so anyone who thinks that racism is a peripheral issue here or that some of the criticism of Goodes isn't racially motivated is kidding them self in my opinion.
Deep down we each know where we stand and this isn't the place to make assumptions, but unless we admit that racism is a very real part of the attitude for a significant minority of our society we can never do anything to address it.
Just my two bob's worth.
And Goodes has just been trying to highlight that, and for those reasons he gets a hard time. It's like people are saying 'we can accept you for being Indigenous but don't you dare point out that we are racist for you no longer will be accepted nor tolerated'.