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+--- Thread: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) (/thread-1955.html)
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - ElwoodBlues1 - 05-06-2015
(05-06-2015, 01:27 PM)Vivian link Wrote:'Game plan' is one of the misnomers of football in that it implies a clear process or style. Game plans if they can even be called that are a set of preferences ideally or priorities. At the moment, the observation that our game plan is too defensive or negative is more the result of poor skills, lack of confidence and players, especially midfield not running enough, not that the coach is telling them to be stodgy and not play up the middle.
Having confidence in one's skills and the skills of teammates requires also having good skills. So the half back that manages a precise pass into the centre to be marked and carried by a teammate makes a 'game plan' look attacking. Is it a different game plan really? Im not so sure. What I do know is that our half back line and back line often miss targets. If i was coaching, a solution may be to play the wings more often. Do we want Walker or Jamison attempting to hit targets in the middle whenever possible?
As for the game this week, I cant see Watson getting a game. He is not kicking bags in the seconds and lacks the pace to play at league level. Unless this radically changes it is hard to see him selected. Jones has been average, but he has shown some improvement so far. There are other players to drop for poor efforts before Jones.
What other club sends out two defensive forwards each week?.......
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - Vivian - 05-06-2015
(05-06-2015, 01:36 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:You can't compare a footy team to soccer.
Chelsea have the biggest budget in European football. They buy the most expensive attacking players and then play a defensive system.
By even mentioning them you miss the point.
They can buy a new team like we used to back with form 4's
In afl not everyone is on the market, and you can't rotate your squad as quickly in the off season. It takes time or you go backwards.
In Afl things are cyclical. We cut our up short anticipating the up wouldn't get high enough. Maybe too early or not.
Be honest can you see us improving in Port Adelaide fashion, if we change coach and if so why?
Is it the amazing key position talent?
The United board pursuing excellence?
Do we have a home ground advantage?
An abundance of talent stifled by our game plan so that they can no longer hit targets, Hunt the footy, or defend in any capacity?
I'm dying to hear why, the cause for such optimistic expectation under a new coach when carrots, Simpson and Judd are looking a bit tired and the rest below fail to fire weekly.
Bang on. It is inconceivable that a change of coach will suddenly see a bunch of average players become world beaters. So many disfunctional organisations think in the terms of change the top dog and it will turn things around. It has rarely, if ever been a good ploy, and i have worked in some places with such a mentality. In the artificial environment of league footy with salary caps et al it is even less likely to work.
What a sudden change of top dog usually does is either nothing, or chaos as they attempt a whole raft of changes.
I hope Malthouse sticks on and is given a couple of years to keep going. I have no fondness for the guy, he is cantankerous and presents poorly in the media. But, he is not doing the job he was hired to do by a delusional board. The role has changed into a longer term construction of a competitive club from the board down, not just a team that runs out each week. This has ben rocky but appears to have settled.
What is in our favour is that Malthouse is one of the very few I imagine that could front the board and not pull punches about where we are at as an organisation. I cannot see many others sitting with that goulish mob and telling them they have wrecked the joint and it is time to shut up and listen. Something must have got through because we are changing some things. New staff have come in, some poor performers have left, and our drafting for the past two years has direction. Malthouse also knows and has experienced what is required to turn a club and a team around.
There is alot of heavy lifting to come, but the job has started. Flicking the coach for either another old hand or a newbie is not going to get the job done any better, and most likely it would stall.
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - ElwoodBlues1 - 05-06-2015
(05-06-2015, 01:36 PM)Thryleon link Wrote:You can't compare a footy team to soccer.
Chelsea have the biggest budget in European football. They buy the most expensive attacking players and then play a defensive system.
By even mentioning them you miss the point.
They can buy a new team like we used to back with form 4's
In afl not everyone is on the market, and you can't rotate your squad as quickly in the off season. It takes time or you go backwards.
In Afl things are cyclical. We cut our up short anticipating the up wouldn't get high enough. Maybe too early or not.
Be honest can you see us improving in Port Adelaide fashion, if we change coach and if so why?
Is it the amazing key position talent?
The United board pursuing excellence?
Do we have a home ground advantage?
An abundance of talent stifled by our game plan so that they can no longer hit targets, Hunt the footy, or defend in any capacity?
I'm dying to hear why, the cause for such optimistic expectation under a new coach when carrots, Simpson and Judd are looking a bit tired and the rest below fail to fire weekly.
Chelsea bought right and attacked for most of the season to build up their points lead and only defended in the latter part of the season to plays safe....smart manager is Jose M.
Jose developed that team of stars into a team and empowered his players, picked a hard nosed captain in Terry and let his skilled players like Eden Hazard play...he didnt send Hazard out to be defensive
player who marked opposing players....
We could learn plenty from Chelsea.....
Port were a rabble under Primus like we are under Malthouse...Robbie Gray went from being a copy of Colin Sylvia to the best player in the comp under Hinkley last season...
Schultz was a badboy lemon at Richmond who couldnt buy a goal...now is one of the premier FF's in the comp....
Why cant a Nick Graham be coached into being the next Robbie Gray, why cant Liam Jones do a Schultz?......why cant Menzel become like Chad Wingard?
What has Paul Roos done to make Jeff Garlett a new man?
Hinkley didnt rotate the squad he rotated the game plan and mindset of his players.....whats to lose in trying a new attacking model?
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - Vivian - 05-06-2015
(05-06-2015, 02:19 PM)ElwoodBlues1 link Wrote:Chelsea bought right and attacked for most of the season to build up their points lead and only defended in the latter part of the season to plays safe....smart manager is Jose M.
Jose developed that team of stars into a team and empowered his players, picked a hard nosed captain in Terry and let his skilled players like Eden Hazard play...he didnt send Hazard out to be defensive
player who marked opposing players....
We could learn plenty from Chelsea.....
Port were a rabble under Primus like we are under Malthouse...Robbie Gray went from being a copy of Colin Sylvia to the best player in the comp under Hinkley last season...
Schultz was a badboy lemon at Richmond who couldnt buy a goal...now is one of the premier FF's in the comp....
Why cant a Nick Graham be coached into being the next Robbie Gray, why cant Liam Jones do a Schultz?......why cant Menzel become like Chad Wingard?
What has Paul Roos done to make Jeff Garlett a new man?
Hinkley didnt rotate the squad he rotated the game plan and mindset of his players.....whats to lose in trying a new attacking model?
I agree with comments about many of the above players. Clearly something has clicked with many of them and they have matched their potential. But it is folly to think that a new head coach alone is the reason. The coach can't motivate players, only they can. The head coach has a major role in creating an environment whereby players are fully motivated, but not the only role. In a practical sense, in a team of 44 how often does the coach talk or work directly to each player? More often it is assistants, other staff, and most significantly, the other players. An organisation has lots of moving parts, with a great many variables. I'm more inclined to think the dismal leadership on field is more of a factor, but nor is it the only one.
Carlton are a club that is only just realising that more needs to is be asked of them. The next step is when each player and staff member in the club are asking more of each other consistently.
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - PassIt2Carrots - 05-06-2015
Thry and Vivian no one has said changing the coach will make us worldbeaters, it will however make us competitive. The coach is CLEARLY responsible for motivating the players thinking different is nonsensical and unrealistic. The coach is paid 1 million+ for what exactly if not that? To implement a style of play and motivate his players to play to it. If a coach is failing at any one of these two things (in our case both) then they need to go. It's not brain surgery.
Thry I cannot believe that someone who continuously brings up examples of soccer in their posts would then turn around and say 'you can't compare a footy team to soccer'.
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - DontgoJuddy - 05-06-2015
@ EB
Can I just say one thing about Schultz and Garlett. They always had talent to burn, unfortunately they were ratbags at their previous clubs and after a series of warning were given the boot. Both have had a kick in the back side and the penny has dropped for them (at least for Schultz it has). I agree though that Primus couldnt teach pigs to roll in mud and Hinkley can.
As for some of the other names you mention from our list? I am not sure they are as talented as people think and comparable to Gray etc. Its funny really, everyone agrees our recruiting has been abhorrent yet we expect the spuds on our list to grow a leg under a new coach or suddenly have value at the trade table.
Having said all that, there is something rotten in Denmark as they say and changes will be made. The question is, will they get it right?
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - PassIt2Carrots - 05-06-2015
I just want a bloke like Graham to get a go so we can see. Amazing that he's still in the twos when we're traveling so poorly.
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - madbluboy - 05-06-2015
Everyone wanted Whiley to get a go and he was terrible.
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - cookie2 - 05-06-2015
If we are talking about Port as an example of how to turn things around we have to look off field as well. What was it that Kochie brought to the club to creat a suitable environment for Hinkley and the players to flourish in?
Re: 2015-Rnd 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (Preview) - PassIt2Carrots - 05-06-2015
(05-06-2015, 10:21 PM)madbluboy link Wrote:Everyone wanted Whiley to get a go and he was terrible.
Graham has already shown himself to be competent at senior level. He's clearly not on Mick's favourites list.